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Post by desertlobster on Feb 3, 2009 11:22:24 GMT -6
Kanipe doesn't mention seeing Boston. Seems odd considering Martin did.
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Post by BrokenSword on Feb 3, 2009 11:33:48 GMT -6
Wasn't it Kanipe's arrival at the pack train with 'message' that prompted Boston to take off after the Custer battalion?
BS
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 4, 2009 8:14:46 GMT -6
See, the word isn't "scan", Markland. It's "skim." A minor point, but you get worked up over similar errors of your own unnecessarily.
BS, Boston had to have left before Kanipe arrived. Kanipe and Martin are only about 15 minutes apart in departure. That, plus the plausible interpretation that Kanipe's message (a late appearence in the tale, and only if true...) exhibits more hysteria than Martin's note, suggests the possibility that TWC sent Kanipe in anticipation of his bro, who sent Martin without knowing Kanipe had left. Two messages so close together, so vague.
Ward Churchill is fighting his firing, and there's frequent mentions of his mess in the local paper. Padding his notes is the least of his violations, but it worked to deter people from finding the lies and fabrications and mere falsehoods, perhaps mistakes.
When you read Donovan, pay attention to what is noted, and how, and what surprisingly is not. And why that would be.
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Post by desertlobster on Feb 4, 2009 9:48:20 GMT -6
What's the riding time between where Martin met Boston and the pack train? If no more than 15 minutes, then maybe Boston didn't leave until Kanipe had arrived at the pack train and Kanipe didn't see him, but Kanipe also stopped at Benteen for a bit so that chewed up some time. Martin and Kanipe did take the same route?
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Post by biggordie on Feb 4, 2009 11:01:32 GMT -6
Boston left the pack train, where he had gone to get a fresh horse, and passed Benteen's battalion before Knipe met Benteen. Knipe's arrival or message had nothing whatsoever to do with Boston's departure - he got a fresh horse and went back.
Knipe went back from near where Custer first viewed the valley, and got his first glimpse of the opposition [and part of the camps]. He would have followed a slightly different trail going back than would Boston in coming ahead, and the two would not necessarily have encountered one another.
The timing might well be consistent with Martin's meeting Boston, but there is the testimony at the RCOI about the brotherS on the hill to be considered, as well as the late addition of the sighting to the tale, as dc has pointed out "several" times [about 3, 217, I think]. Personally, I think that the Boston business was Graham's creation; but the fact remains that the meeting doesn't matter, whether true or not, and it is simply another of those small, insignificant "mysteries" that some people will not let go of, because they don't want any of the "mysteries" solved.
Martin never met Boston and the pack train. Martin never went to the pack train, until possibly later on the hill [although there is still the question of where he got his replacement horse]. That latter is much more worthy of exploration than is the "Boston Affair."
One of the things you have to learn [but I don't care if you don't] about LBH, is that you have to concentrate on important issues, and not those which have no bearing on what happened - such as did Martin accidentally shoot his own horse? what kind of knots did Custer use to tie his jacket on his saddle? what did the NDNs do with the names they cut out of the shirts and socks? should a person get into the market now, or later, or forget the whole thing?
Gordie
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Post by desertlobster on Feb 4, 2009 12:57:34 GMT -6
Kanipe seems to be involved in lots of mysteries:
1. Body and horse on village side(Bustard?)
2. the pack thing
3. Views E troopers in ravine 2000 feet from the monument. Does that distance match up with anything?
How much of what he said should be taken at face value?
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Post by biggordie on Feb 4, 2009 15:07:54 GMT -6
desertlobster;
That's for you to judge for yourself, not rely on someone else's opinion. Compare Knipe's accounts with those of others; fold everything into a manageable form in your mind; get a good topo map, and see how accurate everybody's distances are, not just Knipe [hardly anyone was correct, which is hardly surprising - witnesses tend to differ].
That is one of the problems about delving into the LBH fights - people not only select evidence to buttress their pet theories, but will do so in order to castigate a particular individual. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Knipe's 2000 feet distance is incorrect, you can bet that someone will use that to brand him a liar or poor witness who cannot be relied upon for anything.
That is why it is currently popular to brand him a laggard, and perhaps a coward, who never was a messenger - not because there is any proof of that, but because it makes it easier to explain other things, such as what Benteen was doing, why the packs did not cut straight across country, and why their time line is the right one.
What was it that Al Gore titled that movie - An Inconvenient Truth? There are a number of those which you will come across if you do any serious research into the fights, and you'll never learn them by asking others their opinions. If you have to ask, ask for facts; ask for sources; ask where to go to find information.
Gordie
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Post by desertlobster on Feb 4, 2009 16:11:30 GMT -6
If it wasn't for global warming, those E troopers wouldn't have been so difficult to move.
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Post by Melani on Feb 4, 2009 17:23:24 GMT -6
what did the NDNs do with the names they cut out of the shirts and socks? should a person get into the market now, or later, or forget the whole thing? Gordie I now have an image of a whole lot of nametags for sale on EBay.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 4, 2009 18:00:44 GMT -6
Whatever the intent and Kanipe's supposed message, the reason the ammo packs would not have been brought 'overland' is because the described angle being tightened isn't enough to compensate for the slow down incurred by crossing the grain of the land, with all the runoff gullies to the river.
Further, I sincerely would doubt anyone would say kiss off the odd box of ammo if it falls as you hurry. They'd seen the village when Kanipe left, and they'd gone back to retrieve a box earlier. They'd know they'd need it all in their hands, not the Sioux's.
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