'Bring Packs'

[BrokenSword]

Thank you, Gordie. I forgot about Boston's involvement. SOOOO much to remember.

M
P.S ...and HOWEVER did I doubt the abilities of a Canadian, eh?

[mcaryf]

Just to put a different perspective, I do not think Boston had caught up with his brother when Martini was sent. The distance Boston would have to have travelled was about 9 miles after meeting Benteen's column and the time to do that journey would have been about 50 minutes. I agree it was technically possible but in my view unlikely. Boston had to be checking the route Custer had followed and his pony, like all the other animals, would not have had any water since the previous evening so there is a good possibility he had to travel a bit slower to follow a trail and take a brief water halt.

In my view there is a possibility that the "be quick" was inserted more as a directive to the pack train to countermand the previous order for it to be stealthy by avoiding raising dust. A previous order may have been sent by GAC to this effect via Kanipe but even if that was a valid GAC order he could not be sure it got through so it was worth repeating.

I do not think it likely that Custer could have distinguished any particular dust column in his rear. There would have been plenty of different elements of dust rising from the pack train so I doubt that he would know which might be Benteen's. It is also most probable that Benteen was stopped at the Morass (not a dusty area) when Custer was looking about from near Sharpshooters so Benteen would not have been raising dust for 20 minutes or so.

Regards

Mike

[biggordie]

Mike:

It all depends upon the timing of events, particularly Benteen's march [and his route] and you and I disagree on both. Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby..........

Best,

Gordie

[BrokenSword]

Gordie - "...It all depends upon the timing of events,.."

Yep. It always keeps comming back to that damn timeline. For awhile, I thought that the three columns (four, if you count the pack train) could be dealt with individually, and without a 'master' timeline. Apparently not.

My problem with the master timeline approach is that almost too much is included and scattered through it. Maybe for me, four timlines set up in parallel would help? Then perhaps superimposed on a big map. YEAH, and color coded with crayons like Clair does!

If, that is, we knew just exactly WHERE the lone teepee was (or teepees), and the morass (or morasses), and the this, and the that... and Boston met Martini or not, and Kanipe was sent back and by whom or not. When and where did Custer take his coat off and did the white horsies cross the Divide and were they in the front, rear, off to one side or the other? Where's the aspirin?

I'm beginning to hear those voices again. I don't want to do those things they keep telling me too do. Dr. Freud - call your office. PLEASE!

M

[mcaryf]

Hi Gordie

We can try to do Boston's transit time almost entirely based on the pack train's movements if you wish. The pack train was spotted by Benteen's column at the same time as they saw Boston. The packs had travelled about 5 miles and started 20 minutes later than everybody else so, if the packs do 3mph, this would be about 2 hours after Custer had set off. Boston is about 1 mile ahead of the packs so he is 6 miles out from the start. The point from which Custer sent back Martini was about 14 - 15 miles from the start. I estimate that Martini was sent back in time so he can see Reno fighting but not his flight. I estimate that Reno fled a bit over 3 hours after the start (I am trying to avoid absolute times here as we probably do not agree about that). I can get to three hours by using Wallace's time for Reno's attack order being 2 hours after their start (12.15pm to 2.15pm) it then taking Reno 20 - 30 minutes to cross the river and charge and then fights for 30 - 40 minutes. Hence the 3 hours.

This means that if Martini set off 10 - 15 minutes before Reno's fight then Boston only has 50 minutes for his journey if he is to reach GAC before Martini is despatched.

It is also consistent with Martini's claim to have met Boston whilst on his route back.

Regards

Mike

[clw]

My problem with the master timeline approach is that almost too much is included and scattered through it. Maybe for me, four timlines set up in parallel would help? Then perhaps superimposed on a big map. YEAH, and color coded with crayons like Clair does!

Michael~ I know just what we need. An animated computer graphics program that would move each of the four divisions along their route of march at the proper speeds, showing where they intersect and where each was in relation to the others at any given point in time. Routes of all the messengers, stragglers and vacationists would also be included. There would be a pause button so the juxtaposition of all could be studied at any given point. All the variables would be programable so everyone could generate a model that fits their particular theory. I want little tipis, horses of various colors, flags and guidons, mules, topo features, and action figures in the proper dress for all participants. I'm expecting Clair to get right on this.

[clansman]

And the band playing "Garryowen".

[clw]

Perfect!

[conz]

Oct 17, 2008 11:35:21 GMT -6 clw said:

I'm expecting Clair to get right on this.

Already have something like this, but it is a power point animation.

Clair

[BrokenSword]

NOT perfect! ANYTHING but that damn Garryowen over... and over... and... I swear, I'll take a hostage if you guys do that.

Clansman - I'm greatly relieved that we can still be allies. Can't beat a Scotsman for finding the better bars while on leave.

But I'm confused when 'we' were on the Mayflower, 'we' were still 'you', weren't we? By the way - were you, uh... 'Regimental'?

Sadee! Great to see you re-emerge here. (close as I could get)

Michael

[bc]

Oct 17, 2008 14:28:31 GMT -6 BrokenSword said:

Clansman - I'm greatly relieved that we can still be allies. Can't beat a Scotsman for finding the better bars while on leave.

Michael

Aye, I've never met a real Scotsman who couldn't drink me under the table.

[BrokenSword]

bc - "... I've never met a real Scotsman who couldn't drink me under the table...."

I did once. Even though it was close, I did it.

She was only 9 years old, but I still claim the victory.

M

[clansman]

She must have been part English.

[clw]

Aw shucks, Michael. Artwork!

Yeah, Clair. I never doubted the army has such programs and I'll bet they're not Power Point either. That 60 Minutes piece last week on the UAVs -- Shadow and Predator -- being used at battalion level in the battle of Sadr City was nothing short of amazing! No wonder we're getting a handle on things over there.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/09/60minutes/main4511800.shtml Great read!

Anyway, back to the 19th century....

[biggordie]

Mike:

You're wasting your time with me - I already know where Benteen went, how long it took him, where his battalion was when Boston Custer passed, where Martin was sent back from......

Michael:

......and where the morass was, and the lone tipi, and where Knipe was sent back from, and etc etc and blah blah blah............

BUT I still DON'T know where the local Dairy Queen is located, or if there is a decent place between Billings and Sheridan that serves halfway decent fish and chips - we must get our priorities straight on these boards.

Gordie

PS Apropos the current financial crisis, particularly the credit squeeze/freeze/disconnect - has anyone else noticed that apparently even the largest corporations borrow money for their day to day operations, and wondered how much cheaper goods and services would be were that not the case?

And does anyone really believe that the dead people registered to vote by some ACORN canvassers will actually show up to vote, thereby creating "voter fraud" instead of "registration fraud?" Same with Mickey Mouse and S. Uperman and B Atman. Does one not have to produce identification in order to receive a ballot, as well as being on the voter list? In Canada, where we just had our general election, voters are required to provide "official" photo ID, or may alternatively tender two pieces of signature ID - one of which must contain a current address. The polls closed here in BC at 1900 PDT, and the national results were known within about two hours [another minority Conservative government].