|
Post by johnson1941 on Jul 30, 2023 13:44:21 GMT -6
Wow - per Curtis in the text, point 3 "is one of the highest in the region". And it gives a perfect view of not only the camp, but Reno's fight. Hmm.... Clealry not in sync with the actual map descriptions. 2 seems awfully low height-wise and too far upstream (Martin Curly & Kanipe all had them hitting the bluffs 3-500' north of Reno) but hey - it was Curtis' take. Interesting the "burying squad found 7 bodies" around point 4 - GGR. Id buy it. Grant said similiar (5) about graves there. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Aug 4, 2023 7:24:23 GMT -6
Curtis learnt what he did from participants, which led him to the impression that Custer abandonded Reno in the valley. That brought on alengthy investigation and Curtis concluded Custer was at fault. In reality the valley fight was brief and that sealed the fate of the five companies. My view is that Custer did know when to retreat and found that situation forced upon him with units scattered about the field. I don't think fear came into it since he seems to have understood and shunned this emotion. It's scary being around people like that, especially when they call the shots.
There is a problem with time inherent to understanding what happened, which is simply ignored. Curtis touched on it in his map comments but the reality didn't dawn on him. Custer was up Greasy Grass Hill and Reno was four miles away upriver staring at Weir's Peak from Reno Hill.
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Aug 4, 2023 7:53:17 GMT -6
The map isn't perhaps quite what it could be since it was several strands of data, pulled together in 1907 and combining Marshall's work with that of Walter Graves who produced a sketch map of the river flow and irrigation scheme he was installing across the left or western valley. I believe that map dated around 1900. The railway people provided the information of its route along the valley and bridge etc. I'm not sure when that dated to. There is probably a trove of stuff amongst the railway files which I tracked into a collection somewhere but access requires a visit, or did when I was interested. There is a lot of old water resources publications dating way back but only really useful for the broader history and economics. The sums of money invested in irrigation were huge and transformed agriculture while the railway and later roads opened up access. The map published just in time (1907-1908) for Curtis to make use of it, but dated to Marshall in 1891, and Graves maybe a decade later on the turn of the century. This use is noted bottom left on published maps - at least those also showing the Battlefield marker positions. There's an assessment in 'Atlas of the Sioux Wars' first edition HERE which gives a tight timing model but again fails to accelerate Custer's advance into reality.
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Aug 4, 2023 8:25:46 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by mj1873 on Sept 25, 2023 10:48:43 GMT -6
I doubt GAC took the troops down the narrow defile of Cedar Coulee. It's too compact and you can't see out of it, not to mention it would place the troops at a serious disadvantage, tactically. Rather, GAC kept the ridge on his left, popping over occasionally to keep the village in view while the troops paralleled him out of sight moving across the face of the hills. It's easier going that way and there's more room for the companies to walk 4 abreast. Going down Cedar Coulee takes you away from the the village, besides. When actually taking horses and people down into the coulee, it becomes quickly apparent that it's a waste of valuable time, and people get scrunched up because it can be only ridden by file.
|
|
|
Post by johnson1941 on Sept 26, 2023 6:07:15 GMT -6
…the troops paralleled him out of sight moving across the face of the hills. It's easier going that way and there's more room for the companies to walk 4 abreast. The face of what hills? Crossing the face of what hills is easier then going down a coulee which herendeen said provided “nice traveling” to MTC. Heredeen “from the point we called Weir’s Hill, there is a sort of swale runs down and it is nice traveling to the creek that runs in there” Curley “Custer made a brief survey of the situation and turned and rode to his command. He did not ask Bouyer or me about the country - we rode following the creek as you know - we were all the time going away from the valley. We finally came out at the Creek - Medicine Tail Creek..." ‘Custer did not ask Boyer or me…’ You do realize Custer lost right? WMRH ”At a certain point on the ridge they turned to the right and rode down a coulee in a northern direction. The scouts took up a position on the high bluffs where we could look down into the Sioux camp.” scouts on bluffs, command down coulee. Scout(s) supposedly end up meeting Custer as he comes down MTC, to tell him what they saw. Can you provide any witnesses that he didnt use cedar? So far they’ve been…lacking. Though a current pic, I dont get what is so tough about going down this…people still do it - on horses - with no issues; “down the coulee” doesn’t have to mean at the very bottom of it.
|
|