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Post by Kentishman on Feb 6, 2023 12:42:03 GMT -6
Hi Jenny. Thats a really old post you found there, I have amended my RHQ since that was done, here is the new version. Custer’s Headquarters Detachment Co Lt Col. G Custer (Regimental Commander) 1st Lieutenant (Adjutant/HQ Staff) W Cook 1st Lieutenant Lord (Assistant Surgeon) Sgt Major M Sharrow (H.Q. Staff) Sgt M Hughes (Co K) Regimental Standard Bearer Chief Trumpeter Sgt H Voss (H.Q. Staff) Corporal J Callahan (Co K) Orderly to Dr Lord Trumpeter G Martin (Co H) Orderly Trumpeter H Dose (Co G) Custer’s orderly Mitch Boyer (Quarter master scout) Boston Custer (Quarter master scout) Curley (Crow Scout) Goes Ahead (Crow Scout) Hairy Moccasin (Crow Scout) Whiteman Runs Him (Crow Scout) Mark Kellogg (Journalists) Autie Reed (Custer’s Nephew) Fred has this on Vickory: SGT Vickory (Vickery, Vockroy, Victor, and Vickyard; aka, Groesbeck), John H. — b. Toronto, Canada, Jul1847. Blue eyes, brown hair, dark complexion; 5’ 10” tall. Enlisted 23Nov62 in 14th NY Heavy Artillery. Deserted 23Apr64 and enlisted in 2nd MA Cavalry as John Vickory, 10May64 to 2Jul65. Enlisted in Seventh Cavalry 31Jul66. Killed on Custer Hill; body found with GAC’s. There are some writers who say he was one of two personal flag-bearers for Custer (SGT Hughes [K] being the other). Listed number 91 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” I am sure that Sgt Vickory normally carried the Regimental Standard but that day it was not carried into the battle and as you mentioned it had been rolled up and left with the pack train, but why was Vickory there? his body was found on LSH, but so was his company (F). I placed him with his Company because I have not found any data saying otherwise, unless some one can enlighten me. I think Custer took his "Headquarters Flag" into action, maybe Hughes or Vickory carried this? Ian
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Post by Kentishman on Feb 6, 2023 12:46:24 GMT -6
Hi Jenny. Thats a really old post you found there, I have amended my RHQ since that was done, here is the new version. Custer’s Headquarters Detachment Co Lt Col. G Custer (Regimental Commander) 1st Lieutenant (Adjutant/HQ Staff) W Cook 1st Lieutenant Lord (Assistant Surgeon) Sgt Major M Sharrow (H.Q. Staff) Sgt M Hughes (Co K) Regimental Standard Bearer Chief Trumpeter Sgt H Voss (H.Q. Staff) Corporal J Callahan (Co K) Orderly to Dr Lord Trumpeter G Martin (Co H) Orderly Trumpeter H Dose (Co G) Custer’s orderly Mitch Boyer (Quarter master scout) Boston Custer (Quarter master scout) Curley (Crow Scout) Goes Ahead (Crow Scout) Hairy Moccasin (Crow Scout) Whiteman Runs Him (Crow Scout) Mark Kellogg (Journalists) Autie Reed (Custer’s Nephew) Fred has this on Vickory: SGT Vickory (Vickery, Vockroy, Victor, and Vickyard; aka, Groesbeck), John H. — b. Toronto, Canada, Jul1847. Blue eyes, brown hair, dark complexion; 5’ 10” tall. Enlisted 23Nov62 in 14th NY Heavy Artillery. Deserted 23Apr64 and enlisted in 2nd MA Cavalry as John Vickory, 10May64 to 2Jul65. Enlisted in Seventh Cavalry 31Jul66. Killed on Custer Hill; body found with GAC’s. There are some writers who say he was one of two personal flag-bearers for Custer (SGT Hughes [K] being the other). Listed number 91 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” I am sure that Sgt Vickory normally carried the Regimental Standard but that day it was not carried into the battle and as you mentioned it had been rolled up and left with the pack train, but why was Vickory there? his body was found on LSH, but so was his company (F). I placed him with his Company because I have not found any data saying otherwise, unless some one can enlighten me. I think Custer took his "Headquarters Flag" into action, maybe Hughes or Vickory carried this? Ian
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Post by Kentishman on Feb 6, 2023 13:53:53 GMT -6
Hi Jenny. Thats a really old post you found there, I have amended my RHQ since that was done, here is the new version. Custer’s Headquarters Detachment Co Lt Col. G Custer (Regimental Commander) 1st Lieutenant (Adjutant/HQ Staff) W Cook 1st Lieutenant Lord (Assistant Surgeon) Sgt Major M Sharrow (H.Q. Staff) Sgt M Hughes (Co K) Regimental Standard Bearer Chief Trumpeter Sgt H Voss (H.Q. Staff) Corporal J Callahan (Co K) Orderly to Dr Lord Trumpeter G Martin (Co H) Orderly Trumpeter H Dose (Co G) Custer’s orderly Mitch Boyer (Quarter master scout) Boston Custer (Quarter master scout) Curley (Crow Scout) Goes Ahead (Crow Scout) Hairy Moccasin (Crow Scout) Whiteman Runs Him (Crow Scout) Mark Kellogg (Journalists) Autie Reed (Custer’s Nephew) Fred has this on Vickory: SGT Vickory (Vickery, Vockroy, Victor, and Vickyard; aka, Groesbeck), John H. — b. Toronto, Canada, Jul1847. Blue eyes, brown hair, dark complexion; 5’ 10” tall. Enlisted 23Nov62 in 14th NY Heavy Artillery. Deserted 23Apr64 and enlisted in 2nd MA Cavalry as John Vickory, 10May64 to 2Jul65. Enlisted in Seventh Cavalry 31Jul66. Killed on Custer Hill; body found with GAC’s. There are some writers who say he was one of two personal flag-bearers for Custer (SGT Hughes [K] being the other). Listed number 91 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” I am sure that Sgt Vickory normally carried the Regimental Standard but that day it was not carried into the battle and as you mentioned it had been rolled up and left with the pack train, but why was Vickory there? his body was found on LSH, but so was his company (F). I placed him with his Company because I have not found any data saying otherwise, unless some one can enlighten me. I think Custer took his "Headquarters Flag" into action, maybe Hughes or Vickory carried this? Ian My research says it's is Sgt Major William Hunter Sharrow and I've not seen Chief Trumpeter Henry Voss given the additional rank.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Feb 6, 2023 14:22:33 GMT -6
Fred has this on both men.
SGM William Hunter Sharrow—b. York, England, 1843; claimed he was born at sea. Blue eyes, light brown hair, light complexion; 5’ 7 or 8” tall. Regimental Sergeant Major. Killed with Custer; body found north of Custer Hill. Originally enlisted in service on 21Mar65 in 2nd Cavalry. Discharged 21Mar68. Enlisted 12Aug69 in 7th Cavalry. Appointed SGM 16Apr72 replacing Joseph B. Furgeson. Enlisted again 10Sep74. Listed number 1 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” KIA
CTMP Voss, Henry—b. Hanover, Germany. Blue eyes, light hair, fair complexion; 5’ 8¾” tall; 3rd enlistment on 18Jan75. Chief trumpeter. Michno claims Voss was a Company E man. Fox says Voss’ body was found with GAC on Custer Hill, 12 feet from LT Cooke, though other reports have him on the ridge towards the river and farther down than Kellogg, maybe a mile from the battlefield. PVT Glenn of Company H reported seeing Voss’ and Kellogg’s bodies “near the river” [Michno, The Mystery of E Troop, p. 129]. Listed number 2 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” KIA
If Sharrow was either sent or tried to escape, I don't think he would have a flag with him.
Ian
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Post by Kentishman on Feb 6, 2023 16:59:15 GMT -6
Fred has this on both men. SGM William Hunter Sharrow—b. York, England, 1843; claimed he was born at sea. Blue eyes, light brown hair, light complexion; 5’ 7 or 8” tall. Regimental Sergeant Major. Killed with Custer; body found north of Custer Hill. Originally enlisted in service on 21Mar65 in 2nd Cavalry. Discharged 21Mar68. Enlisted 12Aug69 in 7th Cavalry. Appointed SGM 16Apr72 replacing Joseph B. Furgeson. Enlisted again 10Sep74. Listed number 1 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” KIA
CTMP Voss, Henry—b. Hanover, Germany. Blue eyes, light hair, fair complexion; 5’ 8¾” tall; 3rd enlistment on 18Jan75. Chief trumpeter. Michno claims Voss was a Company E man. Fox says Voss’ body was found with GAC on Custer Hill, 12 feet from LT Cooke, though other reports have him on the ridge towards the river and farther down than Kellogg, maybe a mile from the battlefield. PVT Glenn of Company H reported seeing Voss’ and Kellogg’s bodies “near the river” [Michno, The Mystery of E Troop, p. 129]. Listed number 2 in “June Returns, Alterations… Killed in action.” KIAIf Sharrow was either sent or tried to escape, I don't think he would have a flag with him. Ian Ian, I believe you are quoting from Fred's first edition of 'Participants'. My amendments are shown and acknowledged [PGR] in the second edition. Sharrow was born 2 March 1845 in Sheriff Hutton, northeast of York and he replaced SGM Joseph B. Ferguson. I enjoyed a pint in the Highwayman, Sheriff Hutton, several years ago while researching Sharrow.
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Jenny
Full Member
Posts: 200
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Post by Jenny on Feb 6, 2023 21:00:23 GMT -6
I was hoping to be able to say the Sharrow was "born at sea," since that sounds so much more interesting. Thank you both. I agree, Ian, that no sane man would try to carry a flag if he were escaping, whether by order or chance. I read somewhere recently that Co. E was without a trumpeter for an unreasonable amount of time before Voss (?) was appointed to the position.
And what was the reaction of these red-blooded 7th Cavalrymen to being passed over for promotions in favor of "foreigners?" There are lots of German NCOs, for example. I'm guessing the volunteer Army of the frontier was mostly a bunch of guys looking for 3 squares a day and regular pay.
Jenny
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Jenny
Full Member
Posts: 200
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Post by Jenny on Feb 6, 2023 21:01:52 GMT -6
And Ian, I have never seen reference to Custer's personal flag being in the battle. I'm all ears/eyes if you have a reference for that.
J
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Post by herosrest on Feb 7, 2023 3:18:45 GMT -6
It is reasonably safe to accept that Custer's personal flag was with him during the fighting with this was confirmed in various ways by particpants across both teams. One post battle account had it turned into a jacket or possibly pillow.
7th Cavalry at some point insisted the regimental flag was not captured and whether or not it was or wasn't confusions ensued as to which flag was and was not lost when it seems both were. There has been some fun and games with replica flags over the years at Crow Agency and particularly the yellow Eagle flag. Battle flags are incredibly important and stir combatants to remarkable insanities of bravery.
It is very little known that Henry B. Freeman, who commanded the 7th Infantry battlion at LBH, left interesting comment about flags in his diary of the campaign. It took a hundred years to get it published and that then co-incided with 'Save the Last Bullet' by Marquis's family.
LBH is riven asunder by those supporting either or any of the triumvirate of 7th Cavalry's senior officers. I believe Freeman was Infantry through and through and looked down mightily on cavalry. Quite normal in the services.
Custer's flag or the regiments was taken by the hostiles. During the siege it was offered back to Reno if he would go out and fight for it. That is Freeman's Journal and doesn't seem to get much milage from 7th Cavalry fans. Freeman ended up Brigadier General and MoH. 7th Infantry. Regards.
May your brush strokes be long.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 7, 2023 4:00:25 GMT -6
linklinklinklinklink Here is the Cheyenne 'Yellow Nose' taking Custer's flag. Source Smithsonian page 5 of the Spotted Wolf/Yellow Nose ledger. SOVA Obviously drawn by Yallow nose who knew how it looked. There was a 7th Cavalry flag owned and possibly made by the Crow Medicine Tail which was sold on some time around the 50th anniversary of the battle. I bumped into it during discussions about the flags many moons ago. If I remember correctly, it is shown in anniversary images taken by Wildchute in 1926, as the Crows gathered on the agency to ride up the valley.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Feb 7, 2023 10:02:26 GMT -6
Well Jenny my good old countryman HR has provided you with more than I could have come up with Ian
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