|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 20, 2014 8:52:23 GMT -6
Yes the VC and MOH have the honour of being presented by the most important figures in society, in your case the MOH would be presented by the President, and the VC would presented by the reigning Monarch of Britain, in this case Queen Elizabeth II.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jun 20, 2014 9:05:23 GMT -6
That is exactly the point.
If you read what Mac posted about Simpson and Duffy yesterday you would think Simpson would qualify for The Victoria Cross. The standards though, for the The Victoria Cross are so high, that Simpson was placed under review along with twelve others fairly recently. and it was decided that while he had performed very bravely under fire, his actions did not stand out above and beyond those performing similar duties, and award was denied, and a Mention in Dispatches, already accomplished, was deemed appropriate. While the Simpson story greatly appeals to me, and the fact he is honored in the folklore of Australia a solid recognition of him as both soldier and humanitarian, it also speaks to the idea that there should be one award in my country and the Commonwealth that so far surpasses any other, and the awarding of that Medal, marks the awardee as someone deserving both lifelong honor and immortality where free men gather.
It may also interest you and others to know that our sister city, forty miles to the south, Pueblo, Colorado is home to four men awarded the Medal of Honor, the most of any city or town in the United States.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jun 20, 2014 9:21:13 GMT -6
The Navy Cross, The Distinguished Flying Cross, and The Distinguished Service Cross, all equal depending upon service, are also held in very high regard, but The Medal is so far beyond even that high level. Can't really explain it better. It is just a feeling that words cannot adequately express. Actually, that is not correct. The Distinguished Flying Cross ranks below the Silver Star. You are thinking about the "Air Force Cross." That is the air farce... er... force, equivalent to the Navy Cross and the army's Distinguished Service Cross. Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jun 20, 2014 9:22:48 GMT -6
And you are absolutely correct Fred. My mistake.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jun 20, 2014 9:31:05 GMT -6
Um, yeah, they were not asking anyone to take it literally, just to describe the movement and distortion visible. Good description of herds moving in waves at distance, which is what I thought they wanted Custer to see. But not like they could distinguish horses, per se. Fifteen miles. Absolutely. Totally agree with you, DC. DC, you and I agree here, completely, and you know it. And again, I make no condemnation of DeRudio. Were I to do so, I would be less than honest by using other parts of his accounts. Sometimes a man has just had his fill of imminent danger and needs to take a break from it. No one understands that better than I do. If I were intent on proving you wrong I would delve into it. Whenever I post these things I refer back to-- and copy and paste-- from my notes. I checked them last night and found only a single reference in my "Black Elk profile" to Crazy Horse. His comment in the book-- which is what I paraphrased to form part of that "profile"-- was when Black Elk had moved forward into the bushes and heard the shouting, "Crazy Horse is coming!" Knowing how I keep these notes, I believe seriously that I would have made note of any allusion to preparations Crazy Horse would be making prior to going into battle. There were none. Now, however, I am going to have to go back into the book to make sure I got everything out of it I should have. DC... this is why I love you so much. You drive me crazy trying to get this stuff correct! Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jun 20, 2014 13:07:14 GMT -6
Chuck,
One of my most cherished photos is BG Jim Hollingsworth, the ADC 2-3 of the 1st Infantry Division, pinning a medal on my chest in Vietnam. He retired with three stars and three DSCs. Can you imagine? Three DSCs!!!! Now that is an authentic American hero.
Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jun 20, 2014 14:31:56 GMT -6
Puller had five Navy Crosses. I guess once you live past one everything else is Divine intervention.
My regimental commander in basic training, Colonel Howard Greer had one DSC, and I thought him to be a water walking god-like being.
|
|
|
Post by welshofficer on Jun 20, 2014 16:51:01 GMT -6
I haven't called him a coward; I merely said he got "cold feet." That doesn't make him a coward. He simply decided it was too hot for him where he was and since he wasn't an assigned Company A officer. He had been transferred to that company recently from E because of his DOR and the fact Custer didn't want him as the CO of E Company. DeRudio was like a fifth wheel at that point. Best wishes, Fred. Fred,
Was that the position in relation to 1st Lt DeRudio?
I thought there had been an exchange of 1st Lieutenants, so that Lt Smith moved from "A" to command "E" instead of Lt DeRudio in the absence of Cpt Ilsley on what I thought was pretty much permanent detached service?
Unless 2nd Lt Varnum re-joined "A" in the valley, 1st Lt DeRudio was the only other officer that Cpt Moylan had (whatever Cpt Moylan thought of him?)?
WO
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jun 20, 2014 20:43:59 GMT -6
This sort of speaks to the discussion we had a few days ago regarding Keogh.
|
|
|
Post by Dark Cloud on Jun 21, 2014 16:53:59 GMT -6
Fred,
Regarding Black Elk and CH's Makeup Time, I don't have anything handy from Black Elk Speaks (a euphemism that I cannot remotely find my copy and am somewhat alarmed I haven't seen it for a while)BUT I have Thomas Powers' the Killing of Crazy Horse, and on pages 307-8 he chats this up with quotes from Indian accounts saying CH was not in a hurry. According to the lead in end note to this chapter "They had to die" BES was a big part of that plus Camp. I haven't cross referenced any of the notes, but since I read this within a few years that's probably where I got that. I can't find your post addressing this, of course, and I'm not wading through a 70 page thread with about 25 pages devoted to the topic to find it.
|
|
|
Post by mac on Jun 21, 2014 18:55:50 GMT -6
I too think that it is Black Elk but I have some memory of the same story of CH taking time to prepare and I think it comes from Red Feather. The story certainly has the ring of truth when you consider it. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by mac on Jun 22, 2014 6:13:19 GMT -6
I am still worried about why Custer sends in Reno but does not cross the river in preparation to support him in the valley. I keep wondering if his plan was always around the option he actually took. Puzzling! Away for a few days. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 22, 2014 9:16:35 GMT -6
Hi Mac, well there could be a multitude of reasons why he didn’t cross to support him, but the bottom line is that we don’t know for certain, you can try and narrow it down a bit;
1/ he tried and was stopped and then beaten back.
2/ attacking the middle of the village had no tactical use, as he wanted the northern end, Reno was coming from the south so he wanted to roll it up.
3/ on arriving opposite the village he sends in two companies to get close and have a look at the ford and view what opposition there was, if any.
4/ (my favourite) he arrives at the village and was totally knocked out by the size of the place, he doesn’t really know what to do, as he has never came across anything like this before, he knows he doesn’t have the manpower with him to damage the place, so he blusters around trying to look like he was in control when in reality he hasn’t got a clue.
Enjoy you hols Mac. Ian.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2014 10:36:11 GMT -6
Ian, I'm wondering if mac is referring to Custer crossing the LBH river behind Reno at Ford A - in support. Best, c.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 22, 2014 11:40:37 GMT -6
You could be right Chris, this could mean either;
"why Custer sends in Reno but does not cross the river in preparation to support him in the valley"
Come to think of it, I am sure Mac has asked that question before, so he may mean ford A.
Ian.
|
|