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Post by wild on Feb 17, 2012 11:52:24 GMT -6
Dan. Cathal If the legpull re "Saturday afternoon Superman" vis a vis Spike Jones got distorted somewhere over mid Atlantic as it apparently did on arrival at Boulder International then all I can say is pass the biscuits.
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Post by wild on Feb 17, 2012 11:54:58 GMT -6
Well done Cathal me awl flower
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Post by quincannon on Feb 17, 2012 12:45:10 GMT -6
Richard: Your right of course. It was Mirandy's biscuits and not sheep ofal. I beg you pardon.
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Post by brenda56 on Mar 12, 2012 13:21:32 GMT -6
(As a continuation from post 25 ‘Keep Your Enemies Close’).
Key points being -
4.20 Benteen intersected at Reno Defence site.
Now if Custer had asked the question - what if Reno survives, what if he retreats up the valley, what if he crosses the river, what if he climbs the bluffs and takes a timeout with his survivors is it likely that he will arrive at the future Reno site approximately 10 mins before an advancing Benteen ?
Well, too complex to consider. The intersection of the two units was never in his mind. In Custer’s mind Benteen was on his way and in Benteen’s mind too, I guess, and in the mind of Weir as well.
4.30-4.40 Five companies of Custer united on Calhoun Hill. The E and F manoeuvre towards the village complete.
Custer takes 1 hour and 20 mins. From the Reno defence site to Calhoun Hill. Assuming that Benteen was expected to reach the area of NYC ridge on the opposite side of Deep Coulee where Custer’s three companies were placed the question is how long would it take from Reno defence site. Well at 6hmph Benteen would have to cover slightly less than 4 mile, by my googling that is. That’s about 40 mins, the quickest time in my opinion.)
I previously stated that 40 mins would be the minimum however I have added on 10 minutes in order to give some leeway. In other words Custer expected Benteen to unite with Keogh at or around 5.00 - 5.10.
Also, and very importantly, Custer is still in attack mode. He has not retreated or indeed indicated any defence strategy at this time. He has one objective and that is to win. Yes his forces are split, stretched even but at each stage it is possible to justify his actions. This always was going to be a stretch type operation. Custer knew that when he left the Command HQ on the Yellowstone. I suspect it is of no discomfort to Custer that his units are at this stage stretched along the LBH. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.40
Custer heads north with a depleted E and F companies.
Reno is the magnet for the combatants. Keogh is in position to unite with Benteen. A manoeuvre of E and F toward the village has been completed.
Key question is what was the manoeuvre about ? Was it an attack, reconnaissance, feint or indeed something else ? Well there’s a good chance it was of the latter possibility (something else) but that can only be considered in parallel with the timeline.
Why north ? Well south was where he had come from, west was where he had been, east was not worth considering so it was onwards to the north. The non-combatants were beginning to head north and these were the Indian weak links and Custer knew that. They couldn’t go south because of Reno, west because of activity or threat to their side, east because of Keogh so it was only north(ish).
Whatever Custer had in mind for them is of no importance, they were the opportunity. A large scale fight was not the opportunity.
However to take advantage of this Custer had to cross the river or at least determine a crossing point location.
So he heads north along battle ridge and then down towards the river in or around the area where the ‘highway’ crosses the river. Had he continued northish, battle ridge line, he would have been moving away from the river. He had to move toward the left to converge on the river and a suitable crossing point. And he had to go to the river as the action could only be on the west side of the LBH for a commander still in win mode. And he more than likely found a crossing point. From the river he backtracked towards the cemetery location and waited twenty minutes. Why do that ?
Well looking at the timings he left the Calhoun location at 4.40. Custer was in a hurry. He had to find a crossing point and begin to unwind the stretch. From Calhoun to at or around a ford d location and back to the Cemetery is about 2 ¼ miles or thereabouts. At a 6 mph, minimum I suspect, you’re looking at a 20 to 25 minutes reconnaissance exercise. It is possible Custer gave himself that time period for an answer. Remember this was a Civil war experienced Cavalry officer with his reputation on the line. This was not me or you armed with hindsight by the bucket load.
So does all this mean anything ? It may do.
Waiting at the Cemetery
In Custer’s mind Benteen was about to appear over the hills towards Calhoun at or around 5.00 - 5.10.
Custer placed himself in the Cemetery location at or around 5.00 - 5.05 after the 20/25 minutes reconnaissance. Call that a coincidence if you believe in that. If so it’s the second coincidence in a short time and that is unlikely most would say.
Custer positioned himself on the Cemetery at a pre-determined time in order to confirm visibly the arrival of Benteen at the Calhoun site.
Custer visibly remained for twenty minutes confirming his request for Benteen and/or Keogh to follow on towards the Cemetery location. His positioning on the cemetery could also have been a signal to Keogh, get off Calhoun now with or without Benteen.*
Custer needed more men to run wild in the valley to the north of the village and create havoc amongst the fleeing non-combatants. He was going hunting.
Custer was about to consolidate his forces in the same manner as he had split them up.
And the E and F manoeuvre could have been an action based on the then known size of the village. It could have been reconnaissance but it could also have been a scare mongering statement. Why fight in the big village ? Better to have the non combatants in the free open space to the north. The E and F manoeuvre towards the village may have been a positive step by Custer to separate the sheep from the wolves and it seemed to have worked. In his mind too the wolves were engaging Reno.
Custer was thinking with clarity. In fact you might say he was fighting the battle he designed and not the one that may have been on offer. It was always northwards towards the conclusion as that is what he in part created.
But Custer didn’t know, but he may have suspected whilst he waited at the Cemetery, Reno was out of the game. He may even have considered , again only at this stage, Reno was intersecting Benteen. In other words this was Custer’s ‘Oh crap’ moment.
But what about the Indians in the area and those moving across the river whilst Custer was manoeuvring throughout the battlefield ? Well I don’t think Custer considered them a threat, merely an inconvenience. Custer had an objective and the enemy was not going to get in the way !
So as Custer waited Benteen was a no show. Did Keogh have an instruction to head north if Benteen failed to make the rendezvous? Was the fact that Custer waited for twenty minutes the signal and pre-agreed order for Keogh to ‘Come Quick, bring max.
And here’s a problem. It’s got something to do with changing your actions in line with the developments on the battlefield. Admitting to mistakes and doing something about it. But Custer was always at the front. Maybe too far forward and unable to see what was happening in the field. This was his battle, his battlefield and the enemy had no rights.
His timings were very tight but workable and in a second it went from attack to defence. Snapped you might say.
*The action by Custer towards the village with E and F whilst Keogh is on or around Calhoun Hill to me creates questions. As I have stated the manoeuvre may well have been a proactive decision by Custer to separate the wolves from the sheep and to place the sheep in open ground. For Custer to go down there and place a shotgun through their letterbox would have the effect as stated above. However it would also open up a line of threat from the village towards anyone in blue in the vicinity, namely Keogh as it turned out to be. At this stage, as the five companies reunite after the E and F manoeuvre, Custer heads off north. Keogh is left in a vulnerable location with only expectation that Benteen will arrive. As stated Custer's positioning on the Cemetery location may have been the agreed timely signal to Keogh to get off of the hill. Custer may have known that Calhoun had the potential to get 'hot' as he headed north. That being the case it could be said that Custer's strategy was to win the day with 5 companies, eight would be nice, but 5 will suffice.
Brenda K
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