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Post by douglas on Jan 28, 2008 16:12:17 GMT -6
Mike, Pvt Taylor who was with Reno says that his horse was unable to climb the bluff after crossing the river. Taylor climbed to Reno Hill on foot. Later one of the Herendeen party found the horse and brought it to Taylor. This was before the advance to Weir point.
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Post by Melani on Jan 28, 2008 16:14:56 GMT -6
Accents can be consciously maintained. I had a friend in college who had lived in the U.S. (Pittsburgh) since he was five, but had maintained a very noticable British accent by copying his parents. He sounded a lot like Elisabeth, in fact, and hailed originally from the same neck of the woods--southern England.
If you want to hear a recording of Nelson Miles, I once again direct your attention to "Hear the Voice of Nelson Miles!" under "Other Media," courtesy of my friend the Chanteyranger. His accent is not at all what I would expect.
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Post by douglas on Jan 28, 2008 16:19:07 GMT -6
I would bet that Scout from Memphis and I from East Tennessee have entirely different accents.
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Post by Scout on Jan 28, 2008 18:25:12 GMT -6
"...confusion of ideas, and in some cases, delirium and hallucinations."
Reminds me of when I woke up in an alley one time...
So he pulled a Keith Moon/John Bonham huh?
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 28, 2008 19:30:10 GMT -6
Elisabeth- No need for shame, in fact, I think you're in for a treat. Fun movie. I was going to give you one funny little mistake in the film. But, I cut it. Nothing to do with the story, never-the-less wouldn't want to distract you. M Does it involve 3 coming from 2?
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 20:01:18 GMT -6
Ranger-
Specifically, I was thinking of Wyatt's Faro table. Actually, every time they had a scene with the Faro table in it. The cards were set up exactly backwards from what they should have been. The rules of betting seemed to be wrong too.
Now, in Costner's 'Wyatt Earp' - the table was set up properly.
But to your question, if you mean Doc's 'magic' double-barrel, then yep, caught that one too. Still a great movie and a lot of fun.
M
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 20:49:34 GMT -6
AZ - I have to agree. The more tired you are, the farther it seems you've gone. Same affect on the perception of time passage. These guys were recalling times and distances a number of years later, and more than a few of them (I suspect) thought the whole COI was silly to begin with. As such, they weren't keenly worried about being completely accurate. Not conspiring, just thinking that precise distances and times were rather irrelevant. "Maybe five or six miles... possibly seven. Yeah, seven sounds good." I think it's as simple as that.
"...If he had been in the 5th Cavalry maybe it would have been 5 miles?..."
....and if they'd been in the 1st Cav., the packs would have been there in time to 'save Custer' to begin with.
Can you imagine the insufferable braggin' rights Benteen would have had on Custer in years following? EVERY discussion would have started with, "Gen'al? It's like that time I saved yo' butt on the Little...." (Spoken in the thickest Southern accent Benteen could muster) Custer may well have developed his own severe case of congestion of the brain, or at least a badly twitching corner of the mouth and an uncontrollably blinking left eye, and Benteen would have died a happy man.
M
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 21:07:26 GMT -6
Scout- "...Reminds me of when I woke up in an alley one time..."
Hope you weren't missing a kidney or anything. I woke up on a dock in Tampa after a party in Sarasota (40 miles south). Guess alot of us have done those things.
I wonder how many strange places Tom Custer woke up in. Aside from Hickock's jail that is.
M
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 28, 2008 21:50:51 GMT -6
That has been one of DC's talking points for a long time. Benteen would have loved to save Custer's butt for that reason.
AZ Ranger
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 28, 2008 22:02:24 GMT -6
AZ - I have to agree. The more tired you are, the farther it seems you've gone. Same affect on the perception of time passage. These guys were recalling times and distances a number of years later, and more than a few of them (I suspect) thought the whole COI was silly to begin with. As such, they weren't keenly worried about being completely accurate. Not conspiring, just thinking that precise distances and times were rather irrelevant. "Maybe five or six miles... possibly seven. Yeah, seven sounds good." I think it's as simple as that. "...If he had been in the 5th Cavalry maybe it would have been 5 miles?..." ....and if they'd been in the 1st Cav., the packs would have been there in time to 'save Custer' to begin with. Can you imagine the insufferable braggin' rights Benteen would have had on Custer in years following? EVERY discussion would have started with, "Gen'al? It's like that time I saved yo' butt on the Little...." (Spoken in the thickest Southern accent Benteen could muster) Custer may well have developed his own severe case of congestion of the brain, or at least a badly twitching corner of the mouth and an uncontrollably blinking left eye, and Benteen would have died a happy man. M M Sorry for the confusion although it makes you appear as a mind reader by answering my post before I put it up. These Benteen's threads are getting confusing. I moved the seven miler to where it belonged and then realized you commented to it so I will put it here also: It's strange that if you search RCIO online for 7 miles there are 5 found. All by Benteen. I believe he states that when he met Reno that the pack train was not in sight and at least 4.5 miles away he believes. He stated over an hour for the first packs to come up. Seems reasonable to me. If you have ever packed out a deer whole the mileage out is 7 times further then you walked to get there in the first place. If he had been in the 5th Cavalry maybe it would have been 5 miles? Before GPS the more tired my horse was the further I thought I had ridden. I believe they estimated distance by time. I just don't see the conspiracy in the mileage estimates. AZ Ranger
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Post by harpskiddie on Jan 28, 2008 23:14:50 GMT -6
Michael:
Canadian accents vary as widely as do American. "About" may sound like "aboot" to someone who usually says "Abat" "war" for "wire" "far" for "fire" or "allus" for "always," but I've never heard it that way, despite hearing all the references over the years. I'm a poor candidate for talking about accents, since I apparently have the facility for picking up, or unconsciously mimicing, the accents of people wherever I am [after "aboot" two days]. Oot and aboot.
I always tell visitors that the "Newfie" accent is typical Canadian. Personally, I always liked Curtis Strange's accent, one or the other of the Carolinas I think - especially the way he pronounced "time" - "tahm."
I don't think I have any accent whatsoever, which means that I do, when compared to someone who I think does, who might or might not.
If you know what I mean.
Gordie MC
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Post by mcaryf on Jan 29, 2008 5:43:44 GMT -6
Hi Douglas
William Taylor was in Co A with Moylan. This company had all the wounded to transport from Reno Hill and hardly advanced at all. If you look at page 225 in "Custer in 76" you will find Herendeen's account where he clearly describes how he met Reno at the limit of his column's advance (note this is not the same as the Weir or Benteen Advance). It is entirely possible that one of the party with Herendeen went to the rear of the column, which was probably still on Reno Hill, and gave Taylor his horse. The decision to retreat back to Reno Hill was not taken for a while after Reno halted the front so it is possible that Taylor set off at 5pm, as he describes in his account, but the initial move of the front of the column was a fair time before this.
There is a time of 4.30pm from Sivertsen as to when he lead the Herendeen party across the LBH River which also corresponds with a time Taylor gave. You have to be very careful in understanding the timing of events because Sivertsen was using local time as was William Taylor in this instance. If you applied the same time setting to when Reno first arrived on Reno Hill it would be 2.30pm.
William Taylor's account was written way after the event and he says in it that he studied other accounts so he may have lifted times from other people's versions. One of the big problems with LBH is that different watch settings were used but got mixed together in some accounts, Taylor's being one, and this has caused tremendous confusion not least to poor old John Gray who got this horrendously wrong.
Regards
Mike
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 29, 2008 7:38:01 GMT -6
AZ- "...That has been one of DC's talking points for a long time. Benteen would have loved to save Custer's butt for that reason. .."
Well, something DC and I can agree upon completely. Although he might disagree with me on that.
Abandoning Reno.......... 140 additional lives Charging to Custer........ 125 additional lives Saving Custer ............... Priceless
M
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 29, 2008 7:44:34 GMT -6
Re Tombstone: afraid I didn't notice the errors at all (not that I've ever understood card games in any case). Was too transfixed by how stupendous Kilmer's performance was to notice anything else.
A rival TV channel is riposting by showing Wyatt Earp tonight. Can't imagine it's as good, but I think I'll have to watch it and find out ...
On Benteen's accent: the one place we might find definitive info on that could be the newspaper reports of the RCOI. From the few snippets I've seen of those, they went in for painting a vivid word-picture of each witness -- clothing, manner, and voice. Benteen made a big hit as the great comedy turn of the proceedings, so I feel sure he'll have been described in some detail. If the accent was noticeable, and especially if he was vamping it up for his largely Northern audience, it's bound to have been remarked on. Are they online anywhere, does anyone know?
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 29, 2008 8:17:42 GMT -6
Gordie- "...Canadian accents vary as widely as do American...."
Right. It doesn't really take long for accents to regionalize themselves in any country.
The most prominent example in the States of the 'about'/'aboot' thing was Peter Jennings. Jennings was a Canadian who was for years the anchorman on one of the (then) three major TV news outlets. "The three astronauts are aboot to begin re-entry, dropping oout of orbit ...." Jennings has passed away but can still be seen now and then on the History Channel doing one of the various documentaries ABC News produced and that he hosted.
I saw a comedienne's stand up routine once, that was about her going into Canada to do a show. Her experience with the Canadian border guard and the problems their two accents caused was hysterical.
M
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