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Post by chevrolet on Jan 27, 2008 19:01:57 GMT -6
To mcaryf. you are correct stating that Custer and the troops were finished by the time appoximtely when Weir and the other troops got to the points. Where did you ever get the info or notion that Benteen moved out imediately? I'd have to go dig out my library again, but Benteen arrived on the ridge aproximately 20 minutes after Reno and the what men arrived there. It's the time that elapsed from then, when he arrived and met with Reno, when the pack train arrived and that was 20 minutes or so, till Weir decided to move out, on his own I mite add. Benteen only went in that direction after Weir took it on his own to head out in that direction. That time I do believe was over an hour of undecisive action on that ridge. I will dig out my stuff thats all packed away and reconfirm that. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it mite have been longer. Custer and the troops at the time Benteen converged with Reno were not killed. but anywho, you are from England or just visiting?
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Post by chevrolet on Jan 27, 2008 19:53:51 GMT -6
Hello. not the book I wanted to find at the moment and i guess its packed away, which is Mitch Boyer and the Little bighorn Revisited, excellant book, and a well written time study by I think Doug is another one i have to dig out, but anywho, Centenial Campaign by John Gray, which is good, with a lot of research done by the man, states Benteen arriving on top at 4:20. Rest of the pack train arrived at 5:15. Theres almost an hour right there for time comparison. The Weir advance acoured in three sections spread over an hour, starting with Captain Weir and company D heading out approximately at 4:55. At 5:30 to 5:40 they were at Weir's point. If Benteen had sent a rider imediately to the pack train, hurrying them up, after recieving the note, and speeded up his troops instead of a trot, He and the troops and the train would probably gotten there sooner for sure. I'm just saying that in view of the facts, and having a very definate order from the commanding officer to' be quick', that Benteen should have headed out in the direction that they went anyways, el pronto, also, Reno and Benteen both agreed to stay put till the pack train arrived with Reno sending Lt. Hare to get the pack train moving, which should have been done by Benteen when he recieved the note. Hare left unapposed, Reno had gone down the hill and went to bury Lt. Hodgson. So obviously there were no indians around them, or at least giving them grief at that time. They heard firing downstream. They saw the indians all heading downstream. Why not head out like your orders stated? Benteen knew Custer was there somewheres. So didn't Captain Weir, but Weir had the guts to get going. Sure wished he hadnt died so suddenly that year. Seems kinda suspicious after telling Elizabeth that he would tell her what really happened on that ridge. Sure makes for a good mystery. Anywho, if you get a chance to read that LBH revisited, if you havent or any member has'nt, its well written and good reading and very informative.
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Post by chevrolet on Jan 27, 2008 20:09:48 GMT -6
couple other books that are decent Custer's last campaign by John Gray, isbn3 0-8032-2138x and LBH remembered by Herman Viola isbn # 0-8129-3256-0. i'll have to locate that time study. Extremly well written and researched. The man sure had patience gathering the intel to write that one. anywho, nice chattin with everyone.
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Post by chevrolet on Jan 27, 2008 20:21:54 GMT -6
its Custers Last Campaign, Mitch Boyer and the LBh Revisited. by Gray. that should be isbn no.0-8032-2138x, at least according to some notes I got laying around the library. Doug Scott has written a couple good books also.
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 27, 2008 20:36:29 GMT -6
chevrolet-
There's nothing suspicious about Capt. Weir's death. It was due to acute alcoholism. In a Washington, DC or New York military hospital or sanitarium of some sort.
M
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jan 27, 2008 20:42:19 GMT -6
I believe Weir was in his apartment in New York when he died, but you are correct about the cause.
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 27, 2008 20:48:18 GMT -6
Thank you, Diane
M
P.S. Just for grins and giggles, I checked what I have on Weir. The NY Times obit on him says ... 'died at his residence in this city.' Cause of death was described as 'congestion of the brain.' Another bio I have (from somewhere) says he died on Governor's Island, New York.
Governor's Island was a military base from about 1800 to 1966 and a major administrative center of the US Army. Maybe Weir died in his quarters there. He was assigned to that post because of his ill health from campaigning on the Plains, in the hopes that the easier life-style would be beneficial for him. Didn't work.
What I AM sure of is that Tom and Dick Smothers were born on Governor's Island, but that was years later.
M P.P.S - It's always more exciting to check that facts after posting. Wouldn't you agree?
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 28, 2008 8:06:02 GMT -6
Custer's/Cooke's message/note was cryptic at best.
Come quick, bring packs.
Come quick to who & where? Bring packs? Does that mean Benteen goes back and gets the packs? . . . does he send men back for the packs while he continues? . . .
Once Benteen reaches Reno, the entire scenario changes. We can only assume Custer is not aware fully of Reno's situation which alters Benteen's actions.
Benteen does arrive per Custer's "orders". But since the note does not indicate where Benteen must "come quick" to he theoretically obeyed his orders.
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Post by Scout on Jan 28, 2008 9:07:27 GMT -6
What is congestion of the brain? I've seen that a number of times and don't have a clue to that one. Didn't the guy drink himself to death? I've always thought Weir was rather...odd, but also so fascinating. What's with the overwhelming grief? Did he have a thing for one of the officers? I read that goofball Oliver Stone still plans to make his LBH movie...he'll probably have him being silenced to conceal the truth. Annie Yates is then pushed in front of a subway, Burkman is murdered...
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 9:31:44 GMT -6
Scout-
'Congestion of the Brain' seems to cover a number of different ailments under the one name, as medicine of the 19th Century and earlier often did. I think Edgar Allen Poe had the same condition. Acute alcholism seems to have been a rather common factor in these cases.
The early American Manual of Medicine offers this about 'Congestion of the Brain':
"Symptoms.--This disorder should be regarded more as a symptom than a clincal entity. These are not very characteristic or constant. In active hyperemia [abnormal volume of blood in the vessals within the brain] there may be headache, vertigo, a sense of fullness or pressure, irritability, rapid pulses, insomnia, restlessness, confusion of ideas, and in some cases, delirium and hallucinations.
In passive hyperemia the symptoms are less pronounced, slower in their development, and in severe cases there may be torpor and dullness of the intellect.
Treatment.--The treatment of hyperemia of the brain consists largely of rest and an inhibitory treatment in the cervical region. Attention to primary disorders is always necessary. The treatment should be applied to the upper and middle cervical regions. This influences the nerves (if such exist) that control the cerebral vessels. At least it has a marked influence upon the vessels, as such a treatment always lessens the amount of blood in the brain, to a greater or less extent. Probably, the treatment dilates the various vessels of the body, and thus there is a tendency to equalize the vascular system."
Given Weir's cryptic allusions to the events of June 25, 1876, I find some of the symptoms of this condition rather interesting. The ones I have bold-faced.
M
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 10:15:57 GMT -6
Scout-
"...I read that goofball Oliver Stone still plans to make his LBH movie...he'll probably have him being silenced to conceal the truth. Annie Yates is then pushed in front of a subway, Burkman is murdered..."
AND... Having at last, secretly poisoned the final remaining witness against her martyred husband... Libbie, at long last, drifted off into a peaceful and well earned eternal slumber.
M
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Post by harpskiddie on Jan 28, 2008 10:21:48 GMT -6
Active and passive hyperemia, congestion of the brain, and acute melancholia.
Now I know WHY my head hurts. Oh, Doctor Feelgood, could you step over here a moment, please?
Gordie MC
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Post by BrokenSword on Jan 28, 2008 10:45:13 GMT -6
...confusion of ideas, and in some cases, delirium and hallucinations.
Congestion of the brain, explains why I think I can figure this Little Bighorn thing out one day.
M
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 28, 2008 11:23:27 GMT -6
Love your new avatar. Very dashing.
Weir's "residence" in New York would appear to have been a hotel, according to Price in The Custer Myth. p. 330. Makes sense, if he needed to be on the spot to sign up recruits; Governor's Island would be too far away. I don't know which one, of course, but it must surely be on record somewhere; the army would have been paying his bills.
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Post by Melani on Jan 28, 2008 11:35:36 GMT -6
Newspapers of the time didn't really go in for accuracy to the same extent they do now. Very likely whoever wrote Weir's obit didn't bother to really check such details as his actual address.
"Congestion of the brain" sounds like a polite way to describe alcoholic symptoms. Though there is a theory that Poe actually died of rabies.
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