custer not mutilated

[kix61]

is it possible the indians left custers body alone and mutilated his soldiers bodies because this would do custer a great disservice in the afterlife? Its said the indians believed a mutilated body was useless in the afterlife, this would leave custer to roam it without a generals most valuable possession, his soldiers to command.

the indians leaving his body intact out of respect of his fighting abilities doesn't make sense, after he led his soldiers into an unwinnable scenario (one of the worst military blunders) and after he gained an amount of fame for butchering indian innocents. being a military man through and through, what kind of afterlife could a general enjoy without his men under his command?

its said the indians might not have known who custer was, but how could they not know the difference between a white person and one of their own brothers. And how could they not know who was leading the us soldiers they were fighting? especially one as "distinguished" as custer, who had to have been seen yelling orders to the men.

of all the people to let alone and actually bathe for the afterlife, they chose custer, an indian butcher and a person in charge of the men trying to annhilate them at little big horn.

after death all custer had to look forward to was a potential afterlife... indians made sure it would be void of what made his life on earth worthwhile.

perhaps?

[harpskiddie]

Welcome to this little part of the world.

The Indians had fought lots of soldiers, not all of whom were commanded by Custer [and not all of whom were white]. The preponderance of the Indian testimony is that they did not know who was leading the soldiers [probably it made no difference to them]. They had fought Crook to a standstill just 8 days before, and probably thought it was soome of his troops coming back for more, although they were aware that other troops were in the field against them.

As to the mutilation or not of Cuater's body, there are various statements and various interpretations of the various statements. Some think Custer committed suicide and hence was not mutilated. Actually he was mutilated, just apparently not as much as some of the others. He had received a slash to his thigh, which was a mark that he had been killed by a Sioux warrior, and the shaft of an arrow had been shoved up his penis. These are definite; there may have been more. Several of the other 209 bodies on Custer Field were not mutilated, at least two out of respect. Some of the troopers died in positions where they might easily have been overlooked.

The descriptions of Custer's bodies usually seen in the contemporary accounts would appear to have been highly coloured to save his widow more grief.

[crzhrs]

After two days in the sun and heat, with insects and scavengers during their work . . . I doubt many of Custer's dead looked "presentable".

Many said Custer was not disfigured with only two bullets wounds, a slash in his thigh, a penis inserted in his penis, and possibly a finger removed. I doubt his looking like he was asleep is accurate. His wounds/appearance may have been "reduced" to something more acceptable to not only his wife, but to the public in general. It was bad enough Custer was dead . . . but to have been chopped up and left to scavengers would have been too much to take.

Many others were difficult to recognize due to the wounds and disfigurement, but also other factors as mentioned.

As for Indians recognizing the soldiers . . . probably not during the battle . . . but afterwards there may have been many, especially Cheyenne who recognized Custer and his brother from reservation days. Certainly Bloody Knife and Isiah Dorman who had close ties to the Sioux received "special" treatment for their being with soldiers. BK, of course was half Sioux and had spent much of his youth with the Sioux who ridiculed him for his Ree blood. And Dorman was said to have had a Sioux wife and spent time with the Sioux.

Girard was known to Sitting Bull and other Indians, probably Charlie Reynolds and Jackson, among others.

This was not a battle among unknown adversaries . . . there had been much contact between the two sides throughout the late 1860s and early 1870s.

So to say soldiers and scouts were not recognized is somewhat misleading.

[markland]

Uh, Crzhrs, you may want to proofread your last on the injuries suffered by GAC.


LMAO,

Billy

[crzhrs]

Billy:

Are you talking about the finger? . . .

Or . . .

the chopped up remark?

To many soldiers any "disfigurement" meant mutilation aka chopped up. Many did not know the significance of the "markings" made on a body which meant many things to the Indians. A certain cut may have signified what tribe made it.

Of course cutting off of tongues, feet, hands, penis, etc. would mean a significant loss of what one could do in the "after life": no feet, you couldn't walk, no tongue you couldn't talk or taste food, no penis . . . well you can guess on that one.

If it's the finger missing . . . I believe I read somewhere that Custer had a finger taken . . . but forget the source.

[markland]

"Many said Custer was not disfigured with only two bullets wounds, a slash in his thigh, a penis inserted in his penis, and possibly a finger removed. "

A what inserted in his what?

;D

Billy

[crzhrs]

Billy:

I'm laughing my penis off . . . whoops my head off.

It shoula been an arrow inserted there. Monday mornings are always a blur.

[harpskiddie]

It wouldn't have been at all unusual for Custer to have had a finger removed. The Cheyennes were known in some quarters as "the Cut Finger People."

I think whoever it was that described the field as a"scene of ghastly, sickening horror" probably understated the situation.

[crzhrs]

Harps:

It was a Lt. from I believe the Terry command that made that statement. He also describes the flies which were everywhere. He said he could only get a breath of fresh air by putting his face close to the water of the LBH river.

Some other disfigurements on Custer included his eardrums punctioned by two Cheyenne women using awls so he could hear better in the next life (relatives of Monaseetah?) and possibly a bullet fragment wound on one arm.

It would appear the Cheyenne were the ones who probably knew Custer from their time on the reservation and recognized him after the battle and stopped more mutilation. See LITTLE BIG HORN REMEMBERED (Viola) for more oral history by the Cheyenne of the LBH.

[Diane Merkel]

crzhrs said:

Some other disfigurements on Custer included his eardrums punctioned by two Cheyenne women using awls so he could hear better in the next life (relatives of Monaseetah?) and possibly a bullet fragment wound on one arm.

The awl-in-the-ear scene in SOMS seems to be one that stays with people. Is there anything to support that story, or did Connell make that up?

[crzhrs]

Diane:

Re: Awls . . .

See LITTLE BIG HORN REMEMBERED (Viola) . . . plus Kate Big Head mentioned it . . . and has been used in a number of books (can't think of one right now, though).

[Diane Merkel]

I'm not sure we have that book -- and I figured good old Kate would be cited -- but thanks!

[crzhrs]

Speaking of Kate Big Head:

Go to www.tuellpioneer.com

for a great photo of her. She's wearing a warrior's war bonnet, dressed in a flowing dress/robe, and holding a lance.

The caption reads: Chief Kate, Northern Cheyenne - This famous woman is Kate Big Head, sister of White Bull, and renowned for her own exploits. She had counted many coups

[Realbird]

The only certainty regarding the General's possible disfigurement is that he would not have been spared bodily abuse simply because he was an American "beau Geste" beloved by his contemporaries. To the Sioux, he was nothing more than a despicable enemy who threatened their very existence.

[Scout]

The fact of the matter is that the Indians had no idea they had killed George Armstrong Custer. Couldn't have cared less even if they had been told. No big deal to them. He was just another dead soldier. It was only after the white media hounded them that they 'remembered' everything about his death. Several soldiers were left unmutilated for reasons unknown.