Kicking Bear photo

[grahamew]

Thanks.

[grahamew]

Here's a photo (in the Denver Public Library) of Cody's Wild West Show Indians in Antwerp, 1891. Kicking Bear and Short Bull are easy to pick out at the right (viewer's right) of the front row.

[wolfgang]

Hello folks,
Sorry but I cannot agree that this man is Kicking Bear.Typicall for KB are his full lips and this man hasn´t one. I´ve got this photo titled Bear Shield. Whether this name is the right one I don´t know, but I´m sure its not Kicking Bear.
The photo of Kicking Bear in #33 is not from Barry, its was taken by Frank Rinehart.

[Dietmar]

Hallo Wolfgang,

honestly, I must second Grahame... to me he looks like Kicking Bear. He has the same kind of decoration wrapped around his braids like in some other photos above in this thread... and he sits aside his friend Short Bull.

By the way, I think that William Spotted Tail stand right behind Short Bull. And sitting second from left could be No Neck, even if I´m not sure.

Grüße
Dietmar

[wolfgang]

Hello Dietmar,
Yes you are right, these are Kicking Bear and Short Bull. But I meant the fotos in replies #11 and #33. Unfortunately Diane didn´t put my photos in my reply yet.

[Diane Merkel]

Sorry, all. I was gone all day, so I just saw Wolfgang's photos. Here they are.

Bear Shield:


Kicking Bear:

[grahamew]

Do you have the photographer for that last KB, Wolfgang? And is there a Short Bull full length photo from the same shoot?

[wolfgang]

Hey grahamew,
I haven´t any info about the photographer of the KB photo. Its a cabinet card: Dennistoun Photo Co. of Glasgow. It was taken during KB´s tour with Buffalo Bill´s Wild West Show. I´havent a full length photo of Short Bull from the same shoot.
Best greetings from Germany.

[Dietmar]

Wonderful scans Wolfgang,

thanks for sharing!
I think I will print out and frame the Rinehart photo!

Dietmar

[grahamew]

I'm sure you've seen this site:

www.tnais.com/bbis/bb.html


I read about it somewhere on this board. It's interesting that it talks about the difficulty in finding images taken in Glasgow and here you have one. Maybe you should contact them - or maybe this is one of the images they do have!



Images of the 1891 tour aren't anywhere near as common as those from other tours on the Denver Public Library site. The image from Antwerp was one of the few I found in the Nate Salsbury Collection.

It's an excellent scan of the Rhinehart photo.

I used to love going up to the Kelvingrove museum in Glasgow and looking at its (admittedly small) Indian collection; although the ghost shirt has been repatriated, I believe there's a replica there to represent it. Some good art there too!

[grahamew]

Thanks for the Kicking Bear image, Wolfgang.

[ssbba]

Hi guys,

Regarding the Antwerp photo, I had a look at the Denver Public Library site just now, and was much amused at the hypothethis that it was taken some time between 1885 and 1890.

I believe that it was taken on Saturday, the 6th of June 1891.

I have a copy of a newspaper article which recounts that the Indians attended a dinner under the auspices of the American Minister in Belgium, Edwin M. Terrell, on Rue Belliard, on that day.

Regarding the Glasgow image, I was aware of it, but until this morning had no idea that it was taken there. I know it from a souvenir postcard I bought from eBay, which utilises the upper half of the shot. It most likely dates from the first decade of the 20th century, and demonstrates that years on from 1891 - 92, Buffalo Bill was still capitalising on Kicking Bear's involvement with the show.

Kicking Bear enthusiasts might like to bear me in mind as a potential contact, since I have an immense amount of information about him, both in connection with the 1891 - 92 season specifically, and his life generally. I hope to write a biography soner rather than later.

Wolfgang, could you please tell us more about the Dennistoun photo and how you came by it?

Regards to all from the "Buffalo Bill in Scotland" web site
(www.tnais.com/bbis/),

Tom

[ssbba]

I would like to comment on Dietmar's identification of No Neck in the Antwerp photo.

I believe that he is the first (from the left) of the four figures seated, with the man kneeling on the ground to his right. If this is the man you are referring to, Dietmar, then I agree with you. He looks very physically strong and powerful, and holds what appears to be a pipe in his hand.

The four men sitting in a row at the front are probably those billed as the "chiefs" on this tour, which would imply that the man to No Neck's left is Plenty Wolves, aka Yankton Charley.

There is a wonderful photo of No Neck and Johnny Burke No Neck taken in Cardiff, standing in front of a tipi, I wonder whether you people are acquainted with it?

The newspaper article I referred to earlier stated that there were nineteen "chiefs" present. (Once again, all Indian men are chiefs, for some reason.) That doesn't quite tally with the number of men in this photo, but it's in the same ballpark. The article also lists seventeen names of those present, if anyone is interested.

[ssbba]

Hi again guys,

Please forgive my initial burst of enthusiasm!

I'm a new member, I love it here, and I'm still finding my way around.

I've only just noticed that there are five pages to this awesome thread, and going back to to the inquiry which started it, I can state that:

1. The man in the photo is unquestionably Kicking Bear, and that:

2. The photo was taken in 1891 at the very latest, as I have seen line drawings accompanying newspaper articles in that year, which were clearly and unmistakeably based on this photo.

[Dietmar]

Tom,

welcome! Good to have someone with your knowledge here.

We mean exactly the same person, No Neck is seated farest left, if you don´t count the man kneeling.

I´m not sure about Yankton Charlie, because I have another portrait identified as him. There he looks different.

Best regards

Dietmar