Kicking Bear photo

[grahamew]

Hmm... Good call - even down to the flag he's carrying. Could this be from a 4th of July celebration or maybe a 'celebration' of the cessation of hostilities?

Until now (okay, until I looked properly), the only picture of Stinking Bear I was familiar with was this one, when he's a little older:




BTW, was Hollow Wood a Northern Cheyenne living with the Lakota? Husband of Minnie Hollow Wood, perhaps? Maybe it's just the lighting and angle of the photo, but he seems to have some African American heritage.

[ephriam]

There were two men named Hollow Wood on the Pine Ridge Reservation in 1890-91.

One was a northern Cheyenne, born c1866, making him about 25 at the time of the photograph. Remember that there was still a large band of Cheyenne living at Pine Ridge under the leadership of Little Chief. They were all transferred to the Tongue River Reservation in Oct. 1891. Hollow Wood and his family are on the transfer list. He lived out the remainder of his life at Tongue River.

The second man was an Oglala, member of the Siksicela band of Oglala. He was born about 1849, making him about 42 at the time of the photograph.

So which Hollow Wood appears in the photographs? How are you at estimating a person's age? (I'm not very good!) I would also point out that Crazy Bear, the other individual in the photograph, was also a member of the Siksicela band and was about 12 years older than the Oglala Hollow Wood.

If I had to guess, I suspect that the Gus. Trager photograph is of the Oglala Hollow Wood.

[Dietmar]

Grahame, there are more photographs of Stinking Bear. I guess you would like to see them, so I send them to Diane


by Heyn




with Painted Horse


in 1907

THANK YOU DIANE!

[grahamew]

Thanks for the photos, Dietmar. I'd seen some of them, but not the one with the two men. Of course, there are the Burbank paintings too:




(Sorry that was on the large side)

and




Thanks, Kingsely. I thought it might be odd for the Cheyenne to be taking part in an Oglala festivity, even though they were close and I'd forgotten about Little Chief's band. Yeah, he looks older than 25, so let's go for the Oglala, despite the fact the photo often comes up on auction sites claiming he's the Cheyenne. The documentation's often poor on those things and Trager's captions aren't always correct by any means. What's with the woman's leggings he's wearing, or are they similar to Metis 'savers' (I think they're called)?

[mort aux vaches]

Here are two photos. I have them dated as 1886 but with no other info. I would take the year as arbitrary. He seems quite short (like the photo of the unidentified old Lakota Dietmar posted).





Now, the one below is a pretty well-known photo (at least it's shows up here and there) but I've never seen the man identified, except one time and then the caption read: Kicking Bear. Actually, you can see that the shirt is similar to the one in the Heyn-photo. Curious what others think (know). I can't see too much of a resemblance.

[Diane Merkel]

I'm not sure they are the same person, but there's a bit of a snarled lip in both the top and bottom photos.

Diane

[grahamew]

Crazy Bear - just thought I'd provide a close up of one of the men in the picture on p2 - though I've seen it labelled Conquering Bear too!

[grahamew]

I think the date is 1896 and all three pictures posted by Mort are Kicking Bear. As for him being short, Tim McCoy met him in 1924 and described him as "tall, husky...the meanest, orneriest, most powerful looking Indian I have ever seen."

[grahamew]

Don't know whether we've had this before, but here's Burbank's Kicking Bear from 1899:

[agnes]

Dear mort-aux-vaches!

Your photos all show Kicking Bear. The first two were made in 1896. There's a group portrait about Philip Wells, George Fire Thunder, James Adors, Capt. Thunder Bear, Little Wound and Kicking Bear.

Sincerely:
Agnes

[agnes]

grahamew said:

I think the date is 1896 and all three pictures posted by Mort are Kicking Bear. As for him being short, Tim McCoy met him in 1924 and described him as "tall, husky...the meanest, orneriest, most powerful looking Indian I have ever seen."

Graham,

Hardorff says in his book the Death of CH, that Kicking Bear died in 1904 near Manderson, Pine Ridge.

About his life see the topic "Kicking Bear" in this board.

Sincerely:
Agnes

[grahamew]

I checked McCoy again and he definitely claims to have been introduced to Kicking Bear and Short Bull in May 1924 by Bat Pourier, before he journeyed to see Wovoka. He claims they were around 75 or 80. (Tim McCoy Remembers The West (UNP edition); p209). Sam Maddra's book on the Ghost Dancers and Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show puts Short Bull's death in 1923-1924 and Pourier was around until the mid-1930s, I think. McCoy would only have been 13 in 1904 and it seems odd that he would be out by so many years. Photographs show that he met Wovoka and that was in 1924 too. Was he mistaken? Did he have his dates confused? Was he lying to embellish his book? Graham uses some of the accounts McCoy gathered on LBH in the Custer Myth and some appear in abbreviated form here. Is he reliable? Maybe Hardorff got his dates wrong - although Maddra also gives 1904 as the date of his death (I think she adds the caveat, "in all probability", though I may be paraphrasing there).

[agnes]

Dear Graham!

This is strange! Tim McCoy was the friend of the Northern Arapahos, and he helped them in many way. He could be reliable. Hardorff could be also, because he is a good scholar. But who is the right.... Probably a scholar more credible than an actor...

Sincerely:
Agnes

[agnes]

According to the Tiyospaya, Baptiste Pourier was born in St. Charles, Missouri, in May 10 1841, and died in July 9 1928 on the Pine Ridge Reservation at 86 years of age. He was buried in Holy Rosary Mission's cemetery on the Reservation.

Hardorff stated he was born in July 16 1842.

[grahamew]

Hardorff says Pourier died in 1932 (p91 of The Death of Crazy Horse)!