Red Dogs ledger book.

[David Shan]

In my constant search for information concerning Low Dog, especially images of him, I have recently come across two ledger drawings by a Lakota artist named Red Dog, depicting two men, Red Crow, and Low Dog.
Does anybody know anything about Red Dog and his ledger book, { I have seen work from a good number of ledger books, but not this one, } or about Red Crow?
Shan

[Ephriam Dickson]

Shan:

What is your source for the drawings?

The only Red Dog (Oglala: Oyuhpe, from Pine Ridge Reservation) drawings that I am familiar with are 9 pages in the Garrick Mallery Collection at the Smithsonian, showing his exploits against the Mandan and Pawnee. These also show a man named Black Crow, but nothing on Low Dog.

Ephriam

[shan]

Hello Ephriam,

I rather hoped you would pick up on my inquiry. I got my sources and the illustrations from what I presume to be a fairly recent publication entitled, ' Native Universe, Voices of Indian America. It is a Smithsonian publication in association with National Geographical.
Having seen it in London a few weeks back, I ordered it from my local library, and as a result have not had time to study it fully, but I notice that they have made a mistake on the page I am referring to, labelling Low Dog and Red Crow in the wrong order, when their names in English are plainly seen on the drawings.
It gives little detail on the ledger book, stating only that it is a ledger book C.A. 1884, and has 52 drawings by late 19th century Lakota artist Red Dog, which honours the valour of two warriors on horseback.
Interestingly from my point of view, Low Dog wears a full, trailing on the ground warbonnet, unlike the single feather he wears in all the photographs I have seen of him.
Yes, I am aware of a couple of drawings by a Red Dog depicting him fighting with Pawnees, and whilst I haven't had the chance to root them out to compare styles, at first glance, these look to be by a different artist.
Shan

[Grahame Wood]

I visitied the National Museum of the American Indian in New York a few years ago and picked up a flyer which featured a couple of drawings from this ledger. There were a couple on display - it's a small book, 12.7 x 19.1 cm. I can't find the flyer, but I do have a small book, Treasures of the National Museum of the American Indian and, sure enough, it contains the drawing of Red Crow. The annoying thing is that I picked up two other leaflets and I've got both of them!

[markland]

Somewhere on the web is an example of Red Dog's ledger art. I accidentally found in searching for something else and bookmarked it. Unfortunately, I lost all my bookmarks (it does make organising easier ) and can't remember where I saw it it. But, while trying to find it this afternoon, I did run into these sites which feature ledger art and winter count art.

plainsledgerart.org/

Cheyenne/Arapaho & Lakota

www.si.edu/history_and_culture/american_indian/

The Winter Counts are under Economics & Work (I am mystified why they are there but...). Check out the 1866/1867 depiction of the Fetterman battle or the 1852/1853 depiction of the Grattan battle.


Best of wishes,

Billy

[shan]

Markland,
Last year, I found some drawings on the web, like you I cannot remember where, which I took to have been drawn by Red Dog, but when I had another look at them today, I realised that although 3 of them show Red dog in action, another depicts a man called Black Bear cutting a Pawnee on the head with a sabre.
The drawings have descriptions written underneath in English, and a date which reads 1858, one I take to be much too early if it refers to when the drawings were made, but may well refer to the date the incidents happened.
Apart from the fact that the drawings I recently came across, which are reputedly by him, have a date of 1884, a comparison of the styles show a number of differences, the horses especially are quite different in construction, and the way the profile of the riders is shown is radically different. In my opinion, if this second book is indeed by Red Dog, then then one with an earlier date is by another hand that has depicted several of Red Dogs exploits.
On another matter, in another thread you have give a quick opinion on the new Ricker book, anything more to say, has it illustrations for instance, or new insights we haven't had from elsewhere>
Lastly, thanks for those 2 sites. the first I knew well, but the other was engrossing. I logged on to it planning to spend a few minutes, as I was busy with something else, and found myself still there a couple of hours later.
Shan

[Grahame Wood]

The UNP website actually has contents pages and the list of illustrations in each book. Click on each title. Volume 2 is a vital as volume 1.

nebraskapress.unl.edu/search/TitleSearch

[shan]

Grahame,

Sorrry, I am being a bit thick here, I went into the site, and could find nothing relating to Red Dog, so I typed his name into the title search, and nothing came up. What am I doing wrong?
Shan

[Grahame Wood]

Sorry, I just meant that you could access the contents pages and the list of illustrations in the Ricker volumes, so you could get a better idea of wht's in them.

[markland]

"On another matter, in another thread you have give a quick opinion on the new Ricker book, anything more to say, has it illustrations for instance, or new insights we haven't had from elsewhere>
Lastly, thanks for those 2 sites. the first I knew well, but the other was engrossing. I logged on to it planning to spend a few minutes, as I was busy with something else, and found myself still there a couple of hours later.
Shan"

Shan, well since I am only now dipping my toes into the Indian-side of the wars, I am not in a position to say what is a new insight and what isn't. I only know that it is sweet to have in one volume hundreds of interviews that up to now have been largely inaccessible to the person who is not willing or able to get to the Nebraska Historical Society. As a matter of fact, I just today pre-ordered the second in the Ricker interviews, Soldiers and Settlers.

Having not gone into the book in any great depth, I am gratified it has some interviews about both the Grattan and Fetterman fights. Also some interesting interviews about Crazy Horse from different people such as Chips, Louie Bordeaux and others. Bordeaux's interview had a surprise to me in that he states that C.H. told him that Frank Grouard had been up north fighting soldiers with him and that Grouard killed messengers and read the to C.H. to determine where the soldiers where and any plans being made. I now need to read up on Grouard to find when he was captured by the Hunkpapa to be able to place it in context.

Grahame has gotten you the link to the index and list of illustrations.

Speaking off-topic some more, last night I saw a microfiche report which supposedly has the full contents of, I believe, an Senate investigation into the 1883? treaty. Spotted Tail, Red Cloud and others are listed as witnesses. Would that be of interest to anyone? If so, I can get it copied and either OCR'd or posted as page images.

Gotta go and pick up the kid. Later all.

Billy

[shan]

Grahame, Markland,

Please bear with me. I have tried for hours to bring up either the Ricker volumes, or anything to do with Red Dogs ledger book, on nebraskapress.unl.edu/search/TitleSearch site, but to no avail. I go in and cannot find them on the book site, I have tried using the search box, but they seem to have no idea what on earth I am looking for. HELP!
Shan

[elisabeth]

if you try just doing a search for 'Ricker", you'll get there. (I hope!)

[crzhrs]

I did a search for Eli S Ricker and came up with a number of sites. Some have several interviews with participants of the Indian-White conflict and are very revealing. The entire volume(s) should be a source of many answers to numerous questions/topics we have discussed.

I may have to bite the bullet and spend some money on them!

[shan]

At Last! Thank you Elizabeth. I finally got info on the Ricker book, my God I have to have it, but it is so expensive, guess I will just have to wait and initially get it from the library when it is published over here.
Still didn't get any joy with the Red Dog ledger though.
Shan

[crzhrs]

If you do a search for Red Dog all you get is that stupid Clifford the Red Dog on PBS. Jeez!