Red Dogs ledger book.

[grahamew]

The Slow Bull photo was the one I was thinking of too.

[ephriam]

I will check my notes when I get home this evening for the exact date, but Morrow made a visit down to the new Spotted Tail Agency in 1878 (I think), before the agency was moved one final time to become the Rosebud Agency. I suspect that some of Morrow's Brule images, including the one of Red Leaf in his blanket, were taken at that time, but I have no confirmation yet.

This new photograph of Red Leaf however is very important historically. I wonder if I can propose a radical idea... Do you think there would be enough people interested that we could pool some funds together to purchase the photograph collectively. I could make high resolution scans for everyone who contributed and the original can go to a museum where it will be preserved and accessible. My great concern is that this image will be purchased by an unknown collector and disappear again into someone's personal collection.

What does everyone think? Would you contribute to the Save the Red Leaf Photo fund? Just an idea...

ephriam

[Dietmar]

Generally I like your idea. It depends of course on the final price of the image. Do you know how much it normally takes to purchase a photograph at Cowan´s?

I would contribute some dollars. As long it don´t need too much to get the photo.

[jinlian]

Ephriam, I like your idea and I would gladly contribute to purchase the Red Leaf photograph, but, as Dietmar said, it depends on the final price. I've seen on the Cowan website that the estimated price is 200 to 400$. Now, if there're at least 15 of us interested in purchasing it, and we can contribute, say, 20$ each, we could make a 300$ offer...but it's all speculation, as I don't have actually the slightest idea of how these online auctions go.

Grahame, Charlie: I got the image URL using Maxthon - in fact, I wasn't able to save it using Mozilla...

[Dietmar]

I fear that others will be aware how precious this photograph is. The price could rise higher than estimated. But why not give it a try? I would give up to XX $, if it is for a good cause. I like the idea of giving the photo to a Lakota museum on Rosebud, Akta or Buechel for example.

I have no clue how Cowan works either.

[jinlian]

I was thinking, are there any government funds for cultural projects? It would be nice to have some financial aid for a permanent exhibition of historical American Indian photographs somewhere. Also, if more rare photographs are going to appear on Cowan or elsewhere, it would be easier to purchase them having substantial funds for it. Raising money on individual basis instead would take quite a long time..

[ephriam]

Good morning, everyone. I have an account at Cowan's, having purchased items for the museum where I work. I would be happy to take care of the actual purchase.

My suggestion would be that, rather than we advertise publicly what we will bid, that you email me directly with what you would be willing to commit. You can send it through this site's messaging system. We can see what we have total commitments for before we bid.

We can also decide where we would like to have it deposited, if we were to win the bid. I agree with the idea of having it at a Lakota museum, but just remember that many smaller museums do not have the facilities to reproduce the image when folks request a copy. Another alternative would be to donate it to a larger museum (Nebraska State Historical Society, Smithsonian, etc.) but also donate copy prints to several Lakota institutions (Oglala College Archives, Journey Museum/Lakota Museum in Rapid City, etc.)

ephriam

[Dietmar]

Thanks Ephriam.

Regarding the RL photo: I looked for the fans Kingsley mentioned and came upon a photograph I posted a couple of times before. The three men are unidentified, but here are fans and the man standing has the same thin arms as RL and I wonder about any resemblance.

[Diane Merkel]

Elisabeth asked some intriguing questions on the "Cowan's Auction" thread of the General and Miscellaneous board. I'd love to know the answers.

This is an astonishing array of Indian photos. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how the photos were used at the time?

Obviously we know that a few of the "famous" ones ended up as the basis for engravings in Harper's or wherever. But the rest? Were they taken for anthropological study ... or did they get exhibited as curiosities ... or was there a lively market for them, either among soldiers/settlers or among the folks back east? Or indeed were prints sold/bartered to the Indians themselves? Not wishing to be excessively cynical, but photographers must have had some sort of financial payback for this massive expenditure of time, effort and materials. It'd be nice to be able to put these photos in their sociological context ...

[markland]

May 8, 2008 15:34:16 GMT -6 ephriam said:

I will check my notes when I get home this evening for the exact date, but Morrow made a visit down to the new Spotted Tail Agency in 1878 (I think), before the agency was moved one final time to become the Rosebud Agency. I suspect that some of Morrow's Brule images, including the one of Red Leaf in his blanket, were taken at that time, but I have no confirmation yet.

This new photograph of Red Leaf however is very important historically. I wonder if I can propose a radical idea... Do you think there would be enough people interested that we could pool some funds together to purchase the photograph collectively. I could make high resolution scans for everyone who contributed and the original can go to a museum where it will be preserved and accessible. My great concern is that this image will be purchased by an unknown collector and disappear again into someone's personal collection.

What does everyone think? Would you contribute to the Save the Red Leaf Photo fund? Just an idea...

ephriam

Ephriam, count me in for a contribution as you manged to save me hundreds of dollars for gas and microfilm with your notice that Ancestry had posted the regular Army returns on-line. As an example, the cost for one year was $129 which enabled me to cancel an open order with the Nat'l Archives for two reels of film totaling $130.

As far as the final destination of the original, I would suggest a contribution to a repository where it would not simply lie unused and unviewed except by those persistent enough to pester the staff for access. A side-benefit is that the donation may qualify as a charitable contribution to those of us who are U.S. taxpayers

Let me know, you have the email.

Billy

[charlie]

Red Dog (Sunka Luta): date of birth 1833 (?). At which band of birth of the Hunkpapa he belonged? Why he became a chief of the Oyukpe (ha married a Red Cloud's sister, that was a Ite Sica, not Oyukpe...). When he dead? Kingsleybray said 1886, the last image posted by Dietmar is dated 1907 (!) (by Curtis). Can any Sioux's experts answer to my questions? Thanks.

[Dietmar]

Charlie,

if you don´t mind I transfer your question to the www.American-Tribes.com boards.

Dietmar