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Post by Beth on May 12, 2015 12:46:15 GMT -6
Military ways question. Why does Custer get all the blame for the state of the 7th when Sturgis was the Colonel and Custer's superior? Cheers I am sure that the blame could go all the way up and down the chain but wasn't Custer the 'on the spot' person in charge? The person would would be accountable to make sure that his officers are training the men, for example. I know they were greatly hampered by budget constrains when it came to ammo but surely there was other types of training that could have been done to improve the 7th? Or were they early practitioners of Professor Harold Hill's Think system. If we think we are a functioning regiment, we are.
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Post by Beth on May 12, 2015 12:56:20 GMT -6
Sorry about that Beth, I checked the link after I posted it up and it worked a treat, even when I click on the link in your quote it still plays. I have just been on youtube to see if it was on there, but no. Has anyone else been able to view it? Try this one Beth; link Ian. No go. I'll blame it on the SNP. Maybe they want to bring back a Stuart heir. The current title holder is the Duke of Bavaria BTW.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 12, 2015 13:02:15 GMT -6
Drat! Yes there is something fishy about those Scottish politicians, well the two top dogs are Nicola sturgeon and Alex Salmond. Ian.
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Post by mac on May 12, 2015 16:10:10 GMT -6
Thanks for the answers! Pretty much what I expected. QC and montrose get top marks for creative writing. AZ nice point and excellently referenced to evidence. Also a great insight into how the military really works! Ian the link doesn't work for me either which is unfortunate as I love the stuff you find. Cheers
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Post by quincannon on May 12, 2015 16:22:11 GMT -6
I don't think anyone directly answered your question Mac, about why Custer gets the blame. He gets the blame because he was the commander on the scene. That is holy writ, unchanged since man picked up his first rock, and thus it shall ever be.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 17:03:54 GMT -6
I don't think anyone directly answered your question Mac, about why Custer gets the blame. He gets the blame because he was the commander on the scene. That is holy writ, unchanged since man picked up his first rock, and thus it shall ever be. Custer gets the blame because he's the easy target and it doesn't require much thought. He died. Freed others to lie to cover their own tails. Those above developed the strategy and plan. They gave Custer his orders. They drilled into him that the NAs would run. They, along with Reno, failed to train. He definitely made a few mistakes of his own, but he had plenty of help from others.
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Post by AZ Ranger on May 12, 2015 17:28:07 GMT -6
I don't think anyone directly answered your question Mac, about why Custer gets the blame. He gets the blame because he was the commander on the scene. That is holy writ, unchanged since man picked up his first rock, and thus it shall ever be. Simple and on point. Things didn't have to go that way and Custer made the decisions that separated the command. AZ Ranger
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Post by Beth on May 12, 2015 17:54:43 GMT -6
But as mac asked, why does Custer get the blame for all deficiencies in the 7th before they left on that 1876 campaign. I know a great deal of the blame falls on Congress and its lack of funding, but did Custer do the best he could with what he had or could he have done better.
Beth
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Post by quincannon on May 12, 2015 18:09:59 GMT -6
If you look in an annex "Of Garry Owen and Glory Beth you will find the exact dates when Custer was in command, and that covers nearly the whole period from 1866 to 1876.
When you are in command you are responsible for everything, EVERYTHING, and while it may not seem fair to those who have never dealt with it, that is how it is, it must be, and always will be. It is called command responsibility and when you assume command it's all yours, pass or fail, win or lose. The commander is responsible for everything a unit does or fails to do.
Custer should have done better. Daffy Duck could have done better. Anyone of the 39 other regimental commanders in the Army and all their field grade associates could have done better including the artillerymen. This was a highly winnable battle that Custer alone lost.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 18:24:26 GMT -6
If you look in an annex "Of Garry Owen and Glory Beth you will find the exact dates when Custer was in command, and that covers nearly the whole period from 1866 to 1876. When you are in command you are responsible for everything, EVERYTHING, and while it may not seem fair to those who have never dealt with it, that is how it is, it must be, and always will be. It is called command responsibility and when you assume command it's all yours, pass or fail, win or lose. The commander is responsible for everything a unit does or fails to do. Custer should have done better. Daffy Duck could have done better. Anyone of the 39 other regimental commanders in the Army and all their field grade associates could have done better including the artillerymen. This was a highly winnable battle that Custer alone lost. Double check your dates; think you will find GAC was called to Washington and our fearless Major was in command for much of the time leading up to LBH.
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Post by Beth on May 12, 2015 18:55:51 GMT -6
If you look in an annex "Of Garry Owen and Glory Beth you will find the exact dates when Custer was in command, and that covers nearly the whole period from 1866 to 1876. When you are in command you are responsible for everything, EVERYTHING, and while it may not seem fair to those who have never dealt with it, that is how it is, it must be, and always will be. It is called command responsibility and when you assume command it's all yours, pass or fail, win or lose. The commander is responsible for everything a unit does or fails to do. Custer should have done better. Daffy Duck could have done better. Anyone of the 39 other regimental commanders in the Army and all their field grade associates could have done better including the artillerymen. This was a highly winnable battle that Custer alone lost. Unfortunately it's not a book in my arsenal. I know though from 1866 to 1876 the units of the 7th were scattered all over the place doing post CW policing work--like dealing with the KKK as well as dealing with Indians. Exactly how long though were all the units of the 7th in FAL before they left in May, 1876. Was it months or years? Can Custer be blamed for the training for units that weren't under right under his direct control or is it still his responsibility because he was in charge. Where does Sturgis figure in the chain of command over the 7th? What his appointment to the 7th just so on paper they could say they had the correct chain of command (I think that is worded awkwardly but I hope you understand what I mean.) I know these things have been discussed before but I am afraid I still don't quite understand it. Also-slightly off topic was Custer with the 7th when he was in Austin or does it predate the formation of the 7th?
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Post by quincannon on May 12, 2015 20:26:41 GMT -6
Sturgis was on detached duty Beth. Custer was in command of the regiment and was responsible for all of HIS units from Fort Lincoln to Timbuctu. The commander is responsible PERIOD.
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Post by Beth on May 12, 2015 20:52:21 GMT -6
Sturgis was on detached duty Beth. Custer was in command of the regiment and was responsible for all of HIS units from Fort Lincoln to Timbuctu. The commander is responsible PERIOD. Thanks.
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Post by mac on May 13, 2015 1:27:25 GMT -6
If you look in an annex "Of Garry Owen and Glory Beth you will find the exact dates when Custer was in command, and that covers nearly the whole period from 1866 to 1876. When you are in command you are responsible for everything, EVERYTHING, and while it may not seem fair to those who have never dealt with it, that is how it is, it must be, and always will be. It is called command responsibility and when you assume command it's all yours, pass or fail, win or lose. The commander is responsible for everything a unit does or fails to do. Custer should have done better. Daffy Duck could have done better. Anyone of the 39 other regimental commanders in the Army and all their field grade associates could have done better including the artillerymen. This was a highly winnable battle that Custer alone lost. There you go! The military way! Cheers
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 2:57:57 GMT -6
Sturgis was on detached duty Beth. Custer was in command of the regiment and was responsible for all of HIS units from Fort Lincoln to Timbuctu. The commander is responsible PERIOD. More lies and misrepresentations. Custer was in Washington for months and relieved of command. Maj Reno was in command for the majority of the time up to LBH.
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