|
Post by herosrest on Sept 5, 2023 13:33:37 GMT -6
It may have been Benteen who pointed out the wounded horse. Pretty sure it was. As I mentioned elsewhere, Martin approached from the north off the bluffs and Kanipe also so FWB knew where Custer was without asking. It would have been Martin who pointed out Custer's observation point on bluffs which was marked as 'G' on the Benteen map.
Since the object of the exercise was cross into the valley, the river along its length to Greasy Grass Hill would have been scouted and this lends some weight to the march circuiting the mouth of Deep Coulee. There is a ford there in the GGH area but things were popping by then.
If you think Martin's stuff is varied then take on the Crow scout stuff.
There is some information for Benteen travelling about at 5mph which covers a mile in 22 minutes. Martin closing at 7mph means Benteen was seeing him approach for five minutes from a mile away.
Benteen did spot Kanipe earlier as he rode heading for McDougall and Mathey. They saw pony stealers also so it wasn't too dusty to the front. From meeting Martin it was next to no time or distance to get eyes on Reno and that is a dumpling of a discussion.
Regards.
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Sept 5, 2023 15:58:18 GMT -6
I agree that Martin and McDougall 150 yards apart is incorrect and therefore some form of misunderstanding took placein some way.
Kanipe gave more reasonable distances and of course he was closing on an approaching march. Mules mired in the oases but that doesn't mean the whole lot of them did and with some of Godfreys having a splash as his company was leaving the water, some reasonable minor timing estimates can be done. Not to reveal some big picture but just get inside the flow. My view is the train was a shambles of fourteen or fifteen different mini trains making their way forward. Mathey had an overall responsibility for the gathered force but any of the Captains could order their train forward or where ever they wished subject to Cooke and Custer.
Martin left us Custer's comments after viewing the valley. That was to make a crossing and capture the camp. This was standard practice with no military operation intentionally seeking captives. Destroy the property and pony herds and they would comply with Washington's wishes. Washita might have injected an innovation but at LBH, on the bluffs and beyond as far as anyone knows, Custer had the plan given above.
Martin isn't everyone's idol.
|
|
|
Post by johnson1941 on Sept 6, 2023 5:25:16 GMT -6
Maguire RCOI
Q. What does the point “B” on the map indicate? A. That is a ford and it was supposed General Custer went there and attempted to cross and that line is to indicate the trail of the men and horses. Q. State whether or not there was a trail indicating that it had been taken by General Custer. A. The ground was so well beaten that we could find no well defined trail. The ground was covered with tracks. Q. Were there any evidences of fighting at or near the point “B”? If so, state what evidences and how near the first was. A. There were empty shells lying all around and the marks of ponies or horses having been ridden all around; the whole field was covered with tracks. Every now and then we would find an empty shell and as we advanced up further we found dead bodies in a circle around the crest of a little hill and quite a number of empty shells. There were dead bodies stretched from “D” to “E” and in the ravine “H” there were 28 dead bodies found. Q. How near to the point “B” was it that you found empty shells and evidences of fighting? A. Upon a little rise, on the slope, as if persons had lain there to take advantage of whatever protection there was in the formation of the ground. There were government shells and Winchester shells and one peculiar brass shell was found that nobody knew anything about but which was supposed to belong to General Custer’s pistol. ...
Q. State how near the point “B” the first dead body was found and whether it was an Indian, a soldier, or a citizen. A. It was a soldier. I think the first one was on what is indicated as the second little hill to the left of the first ravine beyond “B.” Q. How far is that from point “B”? A. Six-tenths of a mile. Q. State whether or not any more dead bodies were found in that immediate vicinity. A. There were not. That man was alone.
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Sept 6, 2023 6:15:37 GMT -6
I think this is Maquire's testimony at Chicago. It illustrates something interesting, which most with an interest never realise. That is, what the hell is Maguire referring to as indicated t0 be ' as the second little hill to the left of the first ravine beyond “B.” A prop of some kind was in use, either a map, or drawing or blackboard. I spent maybe 20 years wondering where that little hill is, on Maguire's map and guess what, it isn't Doh, ray,me fah, so, la, ti, duh! We do know it was Six-tenths of a mile, from 'B', and can safely assume it was along one of the, or the, trail drawn by Maguire on his maps, of which there were many. His original sketch map had only the one trail, you know - but that changed at some point which is the devil to determine. I don't say that that cannot be determined to a date but who cares........... I did, but not no more.
|
|
|
Post by johnson1941 on Oct 9, 2023 9:06:44 GMT -6
How about? Scales just right….
|
|