|
Post by dave on Mar 4, 2015 19:50:44 GMT -6
I made a post on the other board on the thread of Benteen's Dawdling. I would like to hear thoughts and opinions from members of this board. If this a poor choice of thread names or a repeat I'll gladly attempt to change it.
Benteen was a courageous professional soldier who knew his duty and acted accordingly. He is accused of lying, dawdling, ignoring and basically acting like a petulant child. His testimony is to be discounted and anyone else is to be believed.
He was told to come on, be quick and bring packs. He quickened his pace after receiving the note and came upon Reno's command. There was chaos and Benteen took over and restored the command. He asked where was Custer and basically told "he went thatta way" they did not know where Custer was. Benteen waited for the pack train not just ammo mules. The note did not say bring just ammo mules, did it?
I am not trying to start or continue a age old topic but what beenteeneast (AZ Ranger) said about being "neutral" regarding Benteen's actions. What ever happened to the adage "innocent till proven guilty?"
Regards
Dave
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2015 20:15:44 GMT -6
Well it's not a court case so I don't know about the innocent until proven guilty, but I agree with all of your other points. I guess some people just have to have someone to blame and it can't be 'the hero'.
Beth
|
|
|
Post by dave on Mar 4, 2015 20:29:49 GMT -6
Beth Could we use the court of public opinion instead? For some reason Benteen invokes such emotion that I wonder if there is too much emotion and too little reason? Regards Dave
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Mar 4, 2015 20:33:20 GMT -6
Dave
There are so many persons with formed opinions that find their favorite villain here guilty without offering proof sufficient to exclude any other opinion. So basically I agree with you and my neutral would be innocent until proved guilty. I want to see convincing evidence of bad actions before defaming anyone.
For example I have a current opinion that Kanipe is in my neutral category with heavy leaning toward substandard performance on his part.
Regards
Steve
|
|
|
Post by welshofficer on Mar 4, 2015 20:42:33 GMT -6
Dave,
I don't really want to go through this subject yet again.
Suffice to say, it's hard for anybody to absolve GAC without blaming Reno and Benteen.
So if their starting point is the absolution of GAC,............
WO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 20:43:25 GMT -6
Dave There are so many persons with formed opinions that find their favorite villain here guilty without offering proof sufficient to exclude any other opinion. So basically I agree with you and my neutral would be innocent until proved guilty. I want to see convincing evidence of bad actions before defaming anyone. For example I have a current opinion that Kanipe is in my neutral category with heavy leaning toward substandard performance on his part. Regards Steve What has you leaning heavily toward substandard performance?
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2015 20:50:12 GMT -6
Beth Could we use the court of public opinion instead? For some reason Benteen invokes such emotion that I wonder if there is too much emotion and too little reason? Regards Dave Wait until that other place gets to Reno... Neither Benteen or Reno are very charismatic personalities unlike Custer, and unlike Custer they survived. Ironically I suspect if everyone had died that day Custer would recieve more of the blame--or if he truly was like teflon, perhaps Crook, Terry and even higher. Beth
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Mar 4, 2015 20:55:25 GMT -6
I would think that if you inquired of any officer above the rank of Captain who has served in the U S Army to thoroughly investigate the record on Benteen's performance on 25 June, you would find a general agreement that his actions and decisions are consistent with the doctrine, training, ethos, and ethics of the United States Army, and while some of his actions could have been executed more professionally, they were sound, and a result of complete, as far as it could be due to circumstances, situational awareness.
I just want someone to tell me what the man did wrong in decision making and why. No charge or accusation made against the man has ever held water, to a man or woman of rational thought and sound mind
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2015 20:56:41 GMT -6
Dave There are so many persons with formed opinions that find their favorite villain here guilty without offering proof sufficient to exclude any other opinion. So basically I agree with you and my neutral would be innocent until proved guilty. I want to see convincing evidence of bad actions before defaming anyone. For example I have a current opinion that Kanipe is in my neutral category with heavy leaning toward substandard performance on his part. Regards Steve What has you leaning heavily toward substandard performance? I don't know what Steve thinks but I personally find it questionable whether Kanipe was an actual messenger or a shirker. Beth
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Mar 4, 2015 20:57:55 GMT -6
Dave There are so many persons with formed opinions that find their favorite villain here guilty without offering proof sufficient to exclude any other opinion. So basically I agree with you and my neutral would be innocent until proved guilty. I want to see convincing evidence of bad actions before defaming anyone. For example I have a current opinion that Kanipe is in my neutral category with heavy leaning toward substandard performance on his part. Regards Steve What has you leaning heavily toward substandard performance? Sending a Sgt from a company low on numbers. Stating Tom Custer sent him.
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Mar 4, 2015 21:01:17 GMT -6
What has you leaning heavily toward substandard performance? I don't know what Steve thinks but I personally find it questionable whether Kanipe was an actual messenger or a shirker. Beth That would be the line if he crossed it. He may have started back to look for the set of fours and just kept on going to the pack train. Seems odd that he was to tell them to cut across country and a few minutes later Martin brings a note to bring packs. Regards Steve
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Mar 4, 2015 21:03:43 GMT -6
Nice touch with the above Captain rank
Steve
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Mar 4, 2015 21:18:26 GMT -6
I don't know what Steve thinks but I personally find it questionable whether Kanipe was an actual messenger or a shirker. Beth That would be the line if he crossed it. He may have started back to look for the set of fours and just kept on going to the pack train. Seems odd that he was to tell them to cut across country and a few minutes later Martin brings a note to bring packs. Regards Steve I know there are possible reasons Kanipe could have been headed in the opposite direction from the way everyone else was but I find the fact he alledgely didn't say who sent him until after they knew who survived to be a humm moment. And the bit about being sent by Tom Custer--I suppose that would explain why Custer didn't send a regular messanger but Tom was traveling with GAC, so he could have selected a messenger just as easy. Would Kanipe have been traveling with Tom Custer or would he be with Company C?
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Mar 4, 2015 22:05:09 GMT -6
He stated in his testimony that he was with Company C. Presumably T. Custer was at or near the head of the column as would be the norm, and I think C was the trail company. If not it was with the last three in column. This means in all probability if what Kanipe said was true, T. Custer would have to back track a few hundred meters to get him. I used to give this guy a break, but the more I delve into him I have concluded that he was a piece of dung who deserted his post in the face of the enemy, which some might put down to momentary fear, like the Crane novel, but he also deserted his friends and comrades then had the gall to show up at all the reunions with his First Sergeants widow, whom he married, along with that no good lying, demented, senile piece of crap Thompson If I could I would dig the bastard up and shoot him.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Mar 4, 2015 22:35:35 GMT -6
Actually Steve, I was not thinking about Captain impregnable skirmish line when I wrote it, but it does fit.
What I had in mind is field grade and above who had served in a similar position as a company or battalion commander, would be the best fit to evaluate and judge Benteen's actions. What he did or did not do if it is to be fairly judged must be done by people who have walked in those boots. That precludes Napoleonic pretenders and jackass reenactors with delusions of adequacy.
|
|