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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 22, 2014 8:42:07 GMT -6
Yes, lets all move on because no one has took any pleasure in all this and the only way left to go is forward, so lets see what 2014 brings.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 9:03:36 GMT -6
I am rarely at a loss for words, but I am now. I think justice was done. I also feel a sense of relief, in that this is no more. But there is also a bit of sadness down somewhere in the very far depths of my humanity that thinks of what might have been. Let each one of us resolve to remember what we came here for.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 9:59:38 GMT -6
Now back to business:
Helford: I will extend the same offer to you that I have to Ian. Should you ever decide to visit San Antonio, one of our more cosmopolitan cities, it would be my privilege to fly down and give you a guided tour of all of the five missions there. One in particular would capture your interest, San Jose, a completely restored mission, giving you the flavor of both the Franciscan mission system and native Indian life of the period. San Jose is jointly held by the National Park Service and the Catholic Church, and as such is both working museum and active house of worship. Three others are also now parish churches in San Antonio. River Walk is something that must be experienced as well. San Antonio is a city rich in both Indian and Hispanic culture.
Tom: You may not have seen what I wrote. What do you think of an after action trip report of impressions made in your upcoming visit?
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 10:20:40 GMT -6
I had envisioned taking Margaret to my favorite Mexican restaurant Mi Terra, have her serenaded by the strolling trio to Reyito de Luna, Sin Ti, and to really get her in the mood for battle fielding a lively rendition of Adelita, all this followed by a stroll along River Walk.
Yes Ian I do have a very good listing of Alamo defenders by organization. I will dig it out and send it to you by PM. I have the Mexican Army order of battle as well. Travis had ordered a uniform, but had not picked it up by the time he was ordered to the Alamo. Officially he was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Regular Army of Texas. There were some of the defenders that did wear uniforms, most notably the New Orleans Grays, whose flag was the only known and verified flag at the Alamo, and still exists as a Mexican Army trophy of war. The 1824 flag most often seen is as far as I can tell a work of fiction. The first proposal of revolutionary Texas was to return to the liberal Mexican Constitution of 1824. Independence was declared at Washington on the Brazos, while the siege was going on. Those defenders never knew that Texas had declared independence.
There once was a company of the Mexican Version of the Texas Rangers stationed at the Alamo, and the name is derived from them - The Flying Company of Alamo de Parras. Alamo is also the Spanish word for the cottonwood, tree that grow in plentiful supply in our southwest. The real name of the Alamo is Mission San Antonio de Valero, from which the presidio and pueblo (now our tenth largest city) of San Antonio de Bexar (pronounced BAY -R) grew
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 10:42:20 GMT -6
There is a so called portrait of Travis in a Texas Army uniform that has a similar jacket. The portrait is a work of fiction so the design may be as well. A wide brimmed hat is also widely worn as sun protection in the west, but Travis is known to have worn a civilian top hap not unlike that worn by our friend Sherlock in the many illustrations of him in the Strand Magazine. The Grays wore a modified in color version of the typical U S Army headgear of the time, a hat that looks very much like U S Army Air Force pilots of WWII with a fifty mission crush
That looks like Ken Curtis in the picture, a one time member of The Sons of The Pioneers.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 11:04:19 GMT -6
Yes.
It is also well to remember that movie depictions of the Alamo set it in the countryside outside the city. Many, and I mean tons of visitors are surprised to find that the Alamo is in the city center, and the city has grown around the Alamo. River Walk is nearby as is Commerce Street the site of the Alameda where the defenders bodies were burned. Some of the Rough Riders were recruited in the bar of the Menger Hotel which is across the street. That part of San Antonio that surrounds the Alamo over to Military Plaza (the original presidio) , La Villeta (the little village), and Main Plaza (the original pueblo) containing San Fernando (where Santa Anna displayed the blood red flag of Deguello) are all within walking distance.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 11:40:21 GMT -6
I have no love for the Madam. She was prototypical in my mind of every Mrs. Colonel, and Mrs. General, wearing their husband's rank, I have ever run across. There are two possibilities I think. The first one is that she knew her husband's death was her meal ticket in later life, the second and most probable to me is that she completely adored the man as evidenced by a visit to West Point where she is buried at the feet of whomever is in Custer's grave
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 12:25:39 GMT -6
It does exist in Bracketville, Texas, also the place Giant was filmed. It is no longer open to visitors as it was for many years. When Wayne built the place he had to make certain compromises in that it was not a recreation of San Antonio de Bexar, but rather a composite that could be used for other Western movies as well.
The set is fairly accurate of the Alamo, but a lot in the way of outer works were deleted. For instance the front gate was in reality covered by an earthwork of stone and dirt with mounted guns not depicted in the movie. The log palisade between the south barracks and the chapel was in actuality protected by a literal jungle of felled trees with branches still attached as a makeshift strengthening of that part of the place. The interior sets were laughable. The place was a dump. The second floor of the two story building, the bottom floor of which still stands at the actual Alamo, was depicted in the movie as Travis' headquarters, when in reality it was used as a hospital, for sick men and those still suffering from wounds from the battle in Bexar the previous December.
Anyone wishing to get a flavor of what the Alamo looked like in concept, and construction not in detail need only go to San Jose on Roosevelt Blvd.
Speaking of Jake Tom, don't wonder far off the paths at LBH either. Ask my wife about our visit and her run in with Jake, and that was on the road at Weir Point.
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Post by fred on Jan 22, 2014 12:43:31 GMT -6
There are two possibilities I think. The first one is that she knew her husband's death was her meal ticket in later life, the second and most probable to me is that she completely adored the man as evidenced by a visit to West Point where she is buried at the feet of whomever is in Custer's grave. I go with the second choice, as well. I gave a small lecture about her at a local library. Got some really good info from an old Research Review and did some other work on Libbie. I think she was a helluva woman and she did enormous good around here, including convincing well-to-do friends to migrate east, settle here, and develop the area. I think George probably had his fun, but Libbie seemed to me to be one great wife. As for West Point, from what I understand, no more of GAC is buried there than a forearm bone and some other small stuff that probably would fit into a shoebox. In fact, I'm not sure they even knew-- or know-- the bones were his. Best wishes, The Grim Reaper
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 12:55:01 GMT -6
Dear GR. Knowing that any old bunch of bones would do, I suspect they fudged a bit. Remember man that thou are but bones and unto Libbie thou must return.
Remember Fred I was once married to a Mrs. Major, which is a Mrs. Colonel in training. She disliked even going to the PX where she complained about standing in check out lines behind enlisted personnel, their spouses, and kids. She sure did like wearing my oak leaves though. I really despise that type. They aren't all like that though. My friend Jacks wife is the salt of the earth. Glad I got smart and dumped her and married a former Sergeant in her stead.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 22, 2014 13:13:54 GMT -6
Hi Carl; good call, he has a certain look about him, rather like a bulldog chewing a wasp.
Ian.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 22, 2014 13:54:21 GMT -6
The Alamo site for the movie was a fair size, but like most sets was not built to last the rigors of time, sort of like the false castles you see at fair grounds. The Top image is from the site whilst filming, the bottom shows Wayne in all his glory sorting out those Mexicans. Attachments:
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2014 15:45:04 GMT -6
Ian: That is not the Waynamo site. That is the set for "The Alamo" released in 2004. That is actually a more accurate depiction./
You will notice the bastion in front of the main gate and the felled trees in front of the stockade. The long barracks and the chapel are in reality more separated there is a forty or so foot wall between the back of that building which is actually the convent from mission days and the front wall of the chapel. This was done because the size of the property they had to build on was smaller than needed. The plaza, the rectangular space that is central to the mission complex is reduced in size as well. In real life it should be about 100 feet longer than it is. The three fortins are correctly located, southwest corner, northwest corner and center of the north wall
Today River Walk is on the left side edge of this picture. Alamo Plaza is inside the walls. Plaza de Valero starts outside the front gate. The Menger Hotel and River Center are on the right side edge of the picture.
A final comment on the sets themselves. Both the Waynamo and the Alamo 2004 set show far to much adobe plaster on the outside walls and buildings. There should be much more adobe brick and rock exposed. Oddly enough the two lowest budget Alamo movies, The Last Command, and Disney's Davy Crockett got much closer to the reality of the time. You can see what those walls looked like at San Jose.
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Post by Margaret on Jan 22, 2014 17:05:57 GMT -6
...thank you once again to Mrs Merkel for allowing the thread to remain in-situ.... I detect a calming influence has descended upon it, these last 24 hours...
...Hello Fred,
thank you also for your long and interesting post mainly about the LBHA... I hadn't known the detail of this although I think you mentioned something of it to me, in the past....
...Mr Markland seems a kindly gentleman...and obviously of some renown.... I have no issue at all... I did not realise he was a member of long standing as he did not appear to be a regular here...although I'm never up to date on these things.... very best regards to Billy, should he still be looking in...
...I understand your feelings regarding the rest of your post....I tend to talk to almost anyone if they are willing and try to encourage them to open up a little, unfortunately it's not always forthcoming....
... hopefully for yourself and others here, things will be a little less problematic from now on.... I see something of this already...
...it will be good I think, if more people start to post again here... perhaps migrating from other boards... I would hope that, despite what you have told me of past antagonisms... that they would be welcome... as I detect that most of us interested in this history tend to be of an age.... that is, from the older generation... it seems that way to me... and with that in mind I tend to let bygones be bygones.... however, there are always one or two beyond redemption....
we shall talk again soon I hope.... I shall watch your pledge very closely Fred....it will be fun I think to see how you get on with this...
Margaret...
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Post by Margaret on Jan 22, 2014 17:09:21 GMT -6
Mr Quincannon,
...Regarding San Antonio....what can I say.. I am so terribly flattered that you would take the trouble...
I had envisioned taking Margaret to my favorite Mexican restaurant Mi Terra, have her serenaded by the strolling trio to Reyito de Luna, Sin Ti, and to really get her in the mood for battle fielding a lively rendition of Adelita, all this followed by a stroll along River Walk.
..Oh my goodness.... romanticism is not lost on our Sir... I should like that very much..... I have already booked my flight for ....let me check my records... oh yes...
......sorry, I'm just joking....please don't be alarmed... but I do appreciate the offer very much... and thank you.... it would be something I would really love to do... in all honesty it seems unlikely at the present time due to various reasons... but we never know what's in store....
...my husband would look forward to it too..... well, I have to be chaperoned as I cannot drive on the 'right'..... a most taxing and hair raising experience...
thank you once again... do take care.. Margaret
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