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Post by Rosemary Agonito on Aug 25, 2005 9:35:37 GMT -6
Long neglected, a Cheyenne warrior woman who fought Custer at the Little Bighorn will finally get her due. Buffalo Calf Road Woman: The Story of a Warrior of the Little Bighorn is due out in Sept. See www.BuffaloCalfRoadWoman.com for more info. Now a controversey is raging about her. The Northern Cheyenne claim to have evidence, long kept secret, that Buffalo Calf Road Woman (also referred to as Buffalo Calf Trail Woman) delivered the blow that knocked Custer from his horse just before he died: www.helenair.com/articles/2005/06/28/montana_top/a01062805_02.txt
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Post by Scout on Aug 25, 2005 10:40:20 GMT -6
And what ''evidence'' pray tell is this? A snapshot of her doing it? This is just another story which is meant for degrading purposes only and backed with no historical evidence other than the fabled 'oral history says..' The Northern Cheyenne have no new 'evidence'. This is just another fairy tale which they believe everyone will believe as truth because they are the keeper of 'long hidden secrets'. This book sounds like it will take its rightful place along side 'Killing Custer' & 'Billy Heath' as fictional history. Sorry.
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Post by Tricia on Aug 25, 2005 12:30:48 GMT -6
Scout--
Yikes! Settle down! We don't want you having a heart attack or anything! From what I understand, this book IS historical fiction ...
Regards, LMC
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Post by Scout on Aug 25, 2005 14:57:58 GMT -6
Well colonel, I wasn't in 'attack mode' over Rosemary's book at all....sorry if it came across as such, I was under the impression that the 'long hidden secret' was coming out as some sort of book. You know how gull-danged worked up I get over some of this nonsense. Sorry Rosemary...and good luck with the Novel. Sorry colonel, I stand corrected.
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Post by Tricia on Aug 25, 2005 15:03:51 GMT -6
Well colonel, I wasn't in 'attack mode' over Rosemary's book at all....sorry if it came across as such, I was under the impression that the 'long hidden secret' was coming out as some sort of book. You know how gull-danged worked up I get over some of this nonsense. Sorry Rosemary...and good luck with the Novel. Sorry colonel, I stand corrected. No need for any corrections, Scout. I'm just concerned that you not waste any outfreakage--save it for something/a thread really worth getting worked up about! And yes, lemme add my congrats to both Agonitos about the novel and best sales wishes! Regards, LMC
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Post by El Crab on Aug 27, 2005 14:56:07 GMT -6
Hmm, the plot thickens. Just like Paris Hilton just so happens to have her sex tape stolen right before her TV debut, this story of Custer killed by a woman appears in at least one paper, conveniently before a book with the same account comes out.
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Post by Leyton McLean CSA on Aug 27, 2005 20:16:35 GMT -6
Crab--
It's most likely a coincidence ... then again, I may be wrong. The leeway between selling a work of fiction and having it see print is about two years. In other words, if a writer pitches a novel today to a major publishing house (one of the New York five and their imprints), and it is immediately purchased, the soonest you'll probably find it in a bookstore is in early 2007--and that's if the writer is really lucky.
Regards, LMC
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Post by crzhrs on Aug 28, 2005 13:10:18 GMT -6
The author of the book now has a website to discuss Buffalo Calf. It is www.BuffaloCalfRoadWoman.com. The author spent much time on the Cheyenne Reservation, talking to Indians and roaming their land. She also went to archives and studied pictographs by the Cheyenne. She came up with one drawing showing Buffalo Calf saving her brother at the Rosebud. See her site for more info.
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Post by Rosemary Agonito on Aug 30, 2005 9:06:16 GMT -6
Just to clarify. As author of Buffalo Calf Road Woman: The Story of a Warrior of the Little Bighorn, you need to know the book went to press before the Northern Cheyenne made their claim about BCR striking the last blow to Custer and knocking him from his horse before he died. I only learned 1 week ago about the revelation from one of your members. The book does not contain that scene of when Custer died. The book is a historical novel, but only in the sense that I had to fill in her childhood, dialogue and some missing pieces of her personal life. Otherwise it is mericulously researched by coauthor Joe Agonito, a Plains Indian scholar, and all major incidents and events are true. The info on how we uncovered her story is on our website www.BuffaloCalfRoadWoman.com. What we do know of BCR: she was a warrior; she fought at the Rosebud so bravely the Cheyenne named the battle for her (The battle Where the Girl Saved Her Brother); she was the only woman to fight at LBH and fought bravely there; she was an experienced marksman known for her ability to handle a gun; and much more. There is nothing incompatible between known accounts and this new revelation that she was the last to strike Custer. That doesn't make it true, but given what we know about her fighting ability, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Finally, I have great respect for oral history. Most of what we know of LBH is from oral history accounts taken down after the battle by anthropologists and others.
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Post by Scout on Aug 31, 2005 16:23:10 GMT -6
What we know of LBH are actually ''first hand accounts'' not oral history accounts. There is a difference. Not all oral history accounts are first hand accounts.....and when reading first hand accounts accounts we must do some comparisions and studies of other first hand accounts to see if they are compatible and arrive at some sort of logical conclusions and data. She may have struck Custer's corpse, but that would have been the only time she could have come into such contact with him without losing her life. On LSH hill only. BCW may have fought in the battle, but the Wonder Woman story is a stretch and lacks serious credibility.
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Post by newfutures on Sept 1, 2005 10:00:58 GMT -6
The author of the book now has a website to discuss Buffalo Calf. It is www.BuffaloCalfRoadWoman.com. The author spent much time on the Cheyenne Reservation, talking to Indians and roaming their land. She also went to archives and studied pictographs by the Cheyenne. She came up with one drawing showing Buffalo Calf saving her brother at the Rosebud. See her site for more info.
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Post by newfutures on Sept 1, 2005 10:13:55 GMT -6
First hand accounts, when told to someone else, are oral history accounts. While it's true that some oral history accounts are not first hand, many are. Certainly many of the accounts of the LBH battle are indeed first hand accounts of people who fought there, people who searched the battlefield after the battle ended, etc.
Scout, why do you say Buffalo Calf Road Woman could not have struck Custer without losing her life?? And why do you claim she could only have struck Custer's corpse? Where's the "first hand" evidence for that claim? She was in the thick of battle throughout according to multiple first hand and second hand accounts. Is it the fact that she's a woman?
By the way, according to the reporter who wrote the account in the Helena Independent Record, the Northern Cheyenne, at their press conderence, actually went beyond just saying that she struck the final blow, knocking Custer from his horse. They claimed she killed him using some thing like an axe. It'll at least be interesting to see what their evidence is once they release it all.
Yes, we know that Custer sustained 2 bullet wounds, but given the condition of the body when found days later, can anyone be sure he did not sustain other blows?
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Post by Scout on Sept 1, 2005 18:08:26 GMT -6
Well newfutures, let's look closely at what you've said here and see if we can make some sense of it all. First of all I want to ask you when will this NEW EVIDENCE be released? I know you have no date so I will give you one. Never. Period. This is the same stuff which pops up year after year, and the people always have new 'evidence', but we NEVER hear from them again. There is nothing to back up this account, but time and time again the media gives time to these fables. I heard these things twenty years ago and there was nothing forthcoming. zero.
First hand accounts are not ORAL HISTORY they are documented history. These accounts from actual participants were given to actual historians who documented them. Oral History are those accounts passed down orally. You asked me where my 'proof' was that such an account didn't happen. I don't need to disprove your theory. You need to prove it...it is a NEW undocumented, unresearched theory which challenges known data and first hand accounts, therefore YOU need to prove it. But for the record I searched through the actual participants accounts; Iron Thunder, Flying Hawk, Red Feather, Wooden Leg, Runs the Enemy, White Bull, Gall, Flying By, Hump, Lights, Pretty White Buffalo, Two Moon, Yellow Nose, White Shield, Bobtail Bull, Shave Elk, White Cow Bull, Foolish Elk, Red Hawk, Lone Bear, Beard and many others and can find absolutely nothing on this ridiculous story. They never mention it. These are FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS. These are the warriors who fought Custer. These are the ones who did brave deeds and risked their lives. There are no better accounts. Show me some data other than some people sitting at a conference table in the year 2005 that say they have new 'evidence.' Please let me know when it will be released. And just for the record, no axe wounds were ever noted on Custer's body. An axe will leave a pretty serious wound, especially if it is fatal. Apologies if this seems a tad harsh....but it is the only way I know to answer it.
Scout
'' Hire the muleskinner!"
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Post by Eric on Sept 3, 2005 5:33:55 GMT -6
I have to agree with you scout about this ax story thing. Sounds quite silly and I can tell by the nonresponse of the others no one else takes it seriously either. Proof is always needed for new theory and I feel none will be coming. Why didn't the cheyennes present it at the news conference?
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Post by Realbird on Sept 3, 2005 19:08:14 GMT -6
Immediately after the battle, American society needed, desired, coveted, and desperately pleaded for information that would discern how this " hero" had actually fallen. What were his last words? What deed of valor did he accomplish prior to his death.
Did he softly whisper"Elizabeth" with his last breath. Much like the passing of Elvis, people wanted to know. The warriors had, initially admitted, that they had no idea who was responsible for this malodorous deed.
Eventually, however, continuously pressed to reveal the identity of the "killer" of Custer, The Indians selected a "fall" guy. The fact that an admission of responsibility could result in retribution from the "Whites" exemplifies why someone had to be "elected" for this post of honor.
In summation, no one knows nor will we ever know exactly how Custer fell. In the turmoil, combat frenzy, and poor visibility of the battlefield, Indians were slaying their own brethren. This latest revelation is merely wishful thinking.
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