Roman Nose picture?

[Dietmar]

Ephriam,
I would love to see those Roman Nose pictures you mentioned (by Hamilton and Howard) .
I only know the Gardner photo.

I am with Hans about the Cross paintings.

[Frank]

If any of you got some potential paintings or what ever about Roman Nose (THE one) I would like to see them, thanks.

[buffaloman]

Frank-

Here is a Cheyenne drawing of Roman Nose on SIRIS.

sirismm.si.edu/naa/4653/08700202.jpg

-Bob

[Frank]

Thankee kindly Bob.

[crzhrs]

According to eye-witnesses (Indian/White?) at Beecher's Island, Roman Nose was wearing a feather war bonnet. In the drawing he is wearing a White man's hat.

[grahamew]

I've seen this discredited somewhere; I think because he's not dressed as he allegedly was at this fight - war bonnet and the modified army jacket/uniform favoured by quite a few Dog Soldiers during this period.

[Dietmar]

Yeaaah,

Finally I found him: Roman Nose with his famous one-horned war-bonnet, looks great...
Behind in the right corner you see Alexander Gardner, who invented the colour photography in the Plains...

Okay, okay, it´s only actor Rob Rondeaux in "Into the West", I´m afraid.

[charlie]

My LORDS, i insist to say that the painting of Cross is the only exsistent image that more resemble to the true face of ROMAN NOSE. This is my opinion:
1) Henry H. Cross really travelled through the plains and had meet a lot of Indian's chiefs; this is reported on his biography.
2) Several white men really saw the great chief; H.L. Johnston, a reporter of the epoch, so described him: "His body is superb; he has a big head, long black hair, with the face features strongly in relief and a face illuminated by big black and scorching eyes; a large mouth with thin lips through whom shine a double row of white teeth."
Now i say: surely Cross had painted him not "at straight", but later, in his study, and he could had added some particulars of his fantasy, ok. But you take off the gold medal, the bracelet, the big knife and the showy war-bonnet: it rest the realy face of him, such as described by the eye-witnesses!!! Look at the image with attention! We can to discuss on the talent of the painter, ok, but not on what have seen the eye-witnesses at the time!
I want the opinion of the great Wises of the forum on my thesis!!!

[Frank]

Hey guys!!
I think that Charlie has a very good point in this what he is saying to defend that painting.
What say you jury? Give some answers and opinions more on this one please.
The painting IS grotesk but that doesnt mean it could not have captioned just correctly those very personal details of Roman Nose figure.
Prove it wrong please. ;D

[Montana Bab]

Frank,

I have seen this same picture done in black and white and it was a far better version. Can't find the source now, but will continue to look. The use of so much orange in the portrait is a little over the top, but I like the picture very much. It is the only picture of Roman Nose that I have found.

He may not have been the most handsome warrior of his day, but he certainly was no coward and stood proud. I rest my case.

Sincerely, Montana Bab

[Montana Bab]

Frank,

I also meant to say how much I have enjoyed all the pictures you have posted on these boards. I'm thankful for your inquisitive mind, and some of the pictures you have posted are some that I have wondered about. Others as well, especially Dietmar, have posted some of the most wonderful pictures and I'm steadily filling my Indian files. I have been saving Indian memorabelia (kachinas, beadwork, etc.) for years, and have had a life-long hobby of doing Indian beadwork.
So keep 'em coming! Thanks
BTW, your website is great!

[Frank]

You are making me blush again...thanks for the compliments and no worries that the pics would end...I have TONS of pics that I am waiting to have a answer for...so I will be posting them ALL ;D ;D one at the time in years to come...its a never ending story.

[grahamew]

The Cross paintings I'm familiar with are either steals from photographs or pictures of men wearing almost fantastical costumes.

Sitting Bull



White Bull


Spotted Elk


Quanah Parker


Buy With Stone, Dakota


Face, Dakota


Rattling Runner, Dakota



When would he have had the opportunity to meet or paint Roman Nose? Is anyone a witness to Cross being there when RN met with any whites? I suppose it's feasible he had the opportunity to knock off a quick portrait sketch and then work it up in his studio some time in the future, but I think we need more evidence.

[mort aux vaches]

frank said:

Hey guys!!
I think that Charlie has a very good point in this what he is saying to defend that painting.
What say you jury? Give some answers and opinions more on this one please.

Not to directly quote Hans' post earlier but the best objection is of course that Cross never met the person he painted. The ridiculous regalia is just something that adds to the overall picture of Cross' work. Cross is probably one of those painters that would've like to equip warriors with assegai spears and whatnot just to add a bit of colour to his paintings.

Claiming it to be more than a fantasy product is stretching things more than is actually feasible. Proving it wrong? Proving it correct is the hard work.

[Frank]

I agree with you with the regalia and all that artists liberty stuff but what I was thinking that could the face match with the truth... well, Charlie can tell more of this, I dunno where he took the pic but thats is the closest guess we have to show how Roman Nose might have looked like? Right?