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Post by Tricia on Feb 3, 2006 9:54:35 GMT -6
Scout--
Sorry; I wasn't exactly certain to which account you referred. But ... and this is a BIG but, wouldn't there be better presence to this press conference if it took place during Custer Week and the 130th anniversary?
Now of course, the oral historians may be running on Indian time ...
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Scout on Feb 3, 2006 12:00:38 GMT -6
Don't hold your breath or bet any money on it.
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Post by El Crab on Feb 3, 2006 14:46:01 GMT -6
Maybe Russell Means will be kind enough to storm the podium and introduce the info.
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Post by crzhrs on Feb 3, 2006 14:47:35 GMT -6
Good things come to those who wait . . .
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Post by bubbabod on Feb 11, 2006 23:32:06 GMT -6
I can't agree more. And if I can expand the subject just a little further, Ridgeway Glover--I think the first name was--travelled to Ft. Phil K. on the ill-fated wagon train where Lt. Daniels was killed in the skirmish at Crazy Woman Crossing and had the opportunity to--and was attempting to--take photos of an actual Indian attack in progress but was ordered to "if you want to shoot something, pick up a rifle and shoot Indians," so the chance was lost. But even a bigger loss was Glover went all around Ft. Phil K. in the fort and out in the hills taking photos. There are no photos of the fort. Glover was killed on the wood cutting road about a mile from the fort, and none of his camera equipment or plates or photos he took have ever been found. I always think that maybe there's some photos of the fort and fort life sitting around in a trunk in someone's attic in New England and we'll never see them. What a shame.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Feb 11, 2006 23:49:54 GMT -6
I've been corresponding with a descendant of Jacob Lyman Greene -- the best man at Custer's wedding, served with GAC in Virginia and Texas -- and his trunk, full of documents including letters from GAC -- was found in the attic of the insurance company he headed in Connecticut. It's now in the hands of a university and probably will never see the light of day. ARGGGGG!
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Post by elisabeth on Feb 12, 2006 2:36:18 GMT -6
Wow, Diane! Which university? Maybe they've got someone working on those papers at this very moment ...!
Bubbabod, that is just fascinating. Never knew that. I suppose the Indians took the camera and his plates from that day, but there must have been stacks of plates and prints back at the fort. What became of Carrington's papers when he died? Could some of the prints be among them? And what about Margaret Carrington's book -- does it have any illustrations? If so, some of them could be engravings from these photos ...
I read somewhere that Matthew Brady's glass plates were sold off to glaze a greenhouse. Tragic thought.
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Post by elisabeth on Feb 12, 2006 6:22:56 GMT -6
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Feb 12, 2006 6:25:49 GMT -6
Quoting bubbabod: ' I always think that maybe there's some photos of the fort and fort life sitting around in a trunk in someone's attic in New England and we'll never see them.'
Quoting Elisabeth: 'What became of Carrington's papers when he died? Could some of the prints be among them?'
Well anything's possible - perhaps the best proof of this being the emergence in 1990 of John H. Fouch's July 1877 photograph entitled 'The Place where Custer fell.' To my mind this is the most significant part of the recent Where Custer Fell volume. It really is the closest evidence we have as to the exact spot wher Custer's body was found - and its amazing that it only surfaced 113 years after it was taken. What is enticing about this is the notion that Fouch surely didn't make the arduous and dangerous journey to the battlefield contemporaneously with Mike Sheridan's exhumation expedition just to take this one shot - so where are Fouch's other images of the scene a year after the battle, and what evidence could be gleaned from them?
So maybe we'll also yet see images of Ft. Phil K. make a dramatic appearance..............
Mouth watering at the thought, GAC
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Post by Scout on Feb 12, 2006 7:49:11 GMT -6
GAC...I made the same point about Fouch's photo expedition awhile back...great minds think alike. He went there and only took a handful of photos...what one or two on LSH? There has or had to have been more stashed away someplace. You would think that the hard trip by wagon to get there would have encouraged him to take more. True West Magazine published an edition several years ago on the 'greatest photos of the old west' and none of the early photos of the LBH were included among the greatest.
The seventh was reformed right here in Memphis...they camped where the utility plant is now. I have to believe someone took photos at some point. They say the citizens came out by the hundreds to watch the regiment drill. GAC made the regiment drill longer for the sake of the citizens, something which was not appreciated by the men. But photos had to have been taken...this was a big deal at the time. Boy, would I love to discover some unpublished photos of the seventh and Custer....what would those be worth?
Good point Diane about the universities...there is probably a great deal of photos, letters and doucments stuffed into college archives and lie there because no one has the least bit of interest in them. Reminds me of the great scene in the Indiana Jones and Holy Grail movie where at the very end the Grail is boxed up and is being pushed into a warehouse with thousands of other relics. That scene had a great deal of truth in it. I remember that the earliest known photo of the Alamo...without the well known Taco Bell top added later was only discovered in the last ten years in some archive. The LBH is more recent history, so there is hope.
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Post by alfuso on Feb 12, 2006 9:57:37 GMT -6
Scout
That was the Ark of the Covenant that was crated A lot of stuff that is "discovered" in archives is because a lot of archives don't even know they have them. Look at the Mozart manuscripts, et al, that get "found" by somebody looking somewhere else under another name or title.
They get mis filed all the time and archives forget they ever had them
Then there are the private collections that few can get to.
And the infamous "trunk in an attic" collections that no one knows are there until the house is sold or rennovated.
And the old legend of a trunk of letters from GAC to his older sister gone astray. Dr Frost bought quite a trove when he bid on a trunk from Nevin's home. But that was an obvious treasure from the off.
alfuso
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Post by Dietmar on Feb 12, 2006 16:28:14 GMT -6
I recommend this excellent article by Paula Richardson Fleming about Glover in "People of the Buffalo" (Volume 2). The author believes that there is a good potential that some Glover photographs of Ft. Phil Kearny have survived. Glover photographed treaty negotiations at Fort Laramie in 1866. Later Glover travelled to Ft. P. Kearny. Before he got killed he made pictures there. According to Glover himself, the group of Peace Commissioners present at the time were to bring the negatives back with them and then forward to Philadelphia for printing. One of these surviving photos (of the 1866 Peace Commission) is presented in the article. Hopefully some day there will be some evidence that some more photographs of Ridgway Glover still exist.
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Feb 15, 2006 9:11:55 GMT -6
Hi Scout! Sorry - I missed your reference to Fouch; but yes, you're right, there must have been a series of views done by Fouch on that expedition. And what a lot was going on in the vicinity at the time: Mike Sheridan retrieving the remains from the battlefield; Fouch setting out to photograph the site with Philetus Norris who was on his way to recover Charlie Reynolds' remains; Norris hurrying on alone and on his way back meeting Fouch still heading for the battlefield! Then Foch alone on the field just after Sheridan had left it - and after that risky journey there's no way he didn't make a collection of views - where are they??!! I also wonder if Fouch kept a journal of his expedition - and if so, what did he note about the battlefield to accompany his pictures. And did he record anything of his encounter with Norris when the latter was heading back from the field - such as did he really have Charlie Reynolds' remains with him? Do you happen to know if the Brust article on Fouch in Montana [Spring 1995] mentions any journals? There's definitely a lot of lost primary material, which just maybe is still out there gathering dust somewhere.......... Contemplating the Dead Sea Scrolls of the Old West, GAC GAC...I made the same point about Fouch's photo expedition awhile back...great minds think alike. He went there and only took a handful of photos...what one or two on LSH? There has or had to have been more stashed away someplace. You would think that the hard trip by wagon to get there would have encouraged him to take more. True West Magazine published an edition several years ago on the 'greatest photos of the old west' and none of the early photos of the LBH were included among the greatest. The seventh was reformed right here in Memphis...they camped where the utility plant is now. I have to believe someone took photos at some point. They say the citizens came out by the hundreds to watch the regiment drill. GAC made the regiment drill longer for the sake of the citizens, something which was not appreciated by the men. But photos had to have been taken...this was a big deal at the time. Boy, would I love to discover some unpublished photos of the seventh and Custer....what would those be worth? Good point Diane about the universities...there is probably a great deal of photos, letters and doucments stuffed into college archives and lie there because no one has the least bit of interest in them. Reminds me of the great scene in the Indiana Jones and Holy Grail movie where at the very end the Grail is boxed up and is being pushed into a warehouse with thousands of other relics. That scene had a great deal of truth in it. I remember that the earliest known photo of the Alamo...without the well known Taco Bell top added later was only discovered in the last ten years in some archive. The LBH is more recent history, so there is hope.
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Post by crzhrs on Feb 15, 2006 9:23:14 GMT -6
There was an excellent article in an issue of the GREASY GRASS regarding Fouch's photos (a number of photos included) and the expedition to the LBH site. I forget what issue though, so I will go back and try to find it and see if there is any relevant info on additional photos and re-burials.
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Post by markland on Feb 23, 2006 11:48:25 GMT -6
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