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Post by crzhrs on Nov 26, 2005 9:24:01 GMT -6
Scout:
I have read and re-read BLACK ELK SPEAKS. It is a fascinating book on the life of Black Elk and his spiritual journey. Here was a person, born 1863, and lived until 1948. He experienced life as a "free" Indian, was at the LBH, traveled with Buffalo Bill, saw the modern age with all the good/bad that came with it. Even though he became involved with Christianity, in the end as an old man he still clung tenaciously to his Native religion. The part about Black Elk, as an old man going to the mountains and praying to the "spirits" to give him a sign to guide him was very touching.
The Black Elk family is still very involved with protecting Native American rights and keeping the culture strong.
I highly recommend book.
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Post by Jim on Nov 26, 2005 9:54:25 GMT -6
I always try to read BOTH sides of any story, so my collection contains many Native American versions of the LBH, as well as their stories of their culture, oral history and thier interpetation on how life was back in the late 1800's. Black Elk Speaks is one of those books I treasure. Another one that I just finished reading is entitled, "The Journey Of Crazy Horse", by Joseph M. Marshall III. The book is an Excellent read, and gives one the insight regarding this Native American icon. I would highly recommend this book. Marshall has a website on his activities and novels at: www.thunderdreamers.com/index.html
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Post by garryowen on Nov 30, 2005 13:54:43 GMT -6
An oldtimer once told me that Windolph appeared on the old Groucho Marx tv show, You Bet Your Life. Groucho at first didn't believe that he was really at the LBH with Custer, but finally Windolph was able to convince him that he was really there. Does anyone know if this is true or not?
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 30, 2005 14:18:03 GMT -6
YOU BET YOUR LIFE was on TV during the '50s. Windolph died in 1950. There may have been a radio version of YBYL during the '40s, but it seems very unlikely that Windolph would have appeared on it.
But only my guess.
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Post by Scout on Nov 30, 2005 15:09:04 GMT -6
Wow! garryowen, great stuff..I have never heard of this before...could there be a copy somewhere, in an archive? I would love to find out about that, but I gotta agree with horse, didn't that show come along in the 50's, and Windolph died in 1950 ?
One fellow who claimed to have been in the 7th and said he deserted before the battle, Edward Ryan, was either on 'What's My Line,' or 'I've Got A Secret.'..I've not been able to find out which. He wrote a book....''Me and the Black Hills,'' but was finally exposed by LBH supt. Edward Luce. He had claimed to be 95, but was in fact, 65. Could it have been Ryan on 'You Bet Your Life' ?
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Post by garryowen on Nov 30, 2005 15:32:07 GMT -6
Scout You and horse are correct. The tv show began in 1950 but the radio version premeired in 1947. The story made sense to me at the time because of the fact that Windolph was " in the news" in 47 as that was when the book by the Hunts was published concerning his story.( I fought with Custer). The show was always on the look out for quirky guests with unusual stories. I thought that Windolph would fit the bill. My friend has long since passed so I cannot check out the details.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 30, 2005 19:11:25 GMT -6
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Post by Treasuredude on Nov 30, 2005 20:41:02 GMT -6
If you can stand?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Doesn't everyone love Groucho? He's the best.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 30, 2005 23:58:09 GMT -6
T-Dude,
Listening to the radio shows just wouldn't be as good as the TV shows because you can't see the duck. ;D
The CDs are only $10, so maybe Santa will bring you a set . . . if you've been good.
Diane
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Post by El Crab on Dec 1, 2005 3:12:52 GMT -6
If you can stand?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Doesn't everyone love Groucho? He's the best. I love Groucho. My girlfriend and I watched Duck Soup with my dad and we laughed our butts off. Coincidentally, my dad had a Persian named Groucho. And lucky for me, I rewatched Duck Soup the other day. I love Turner Classic Movies.
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jjm
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by jjm on Dec 4, 2005 17:11:20 GMT -6
Hail Freedonia!
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Post by rch on Feb 2, 2006 15:13:40 GMT -6
The Gougho Marx show in question was indeed a TV program, although as was common with TV shows back then, it could also have been broadcast on radio. I know that someone claiming to have been with Custer did appear on that show.
I had been out playing with my friends and my parents told me about it when I came in. I can't date the event. My earliest dateable TV memory is the 1952 political conventions. I also believe that even the first run Grougho Marx shows were filmed. It could have been a rerun broadcast years after its original showing.
My parents told me that the man claimed to have been left behind to care for a sick comrade. That doesn"t sound like something Windolph might say, but it could be a garbled version of something Horner might have said.
I make no claims for my parent's memory or my own, but I am glad that this fifty year old nail in my shoe has at last yielded a form of confirmation.
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Post by Scout on Feb 2, 2006 20:49:50 GMT -6
rch...good post. The ''I was left behind to care for a sick soldier'' story was Edward Ryan's tall tale!!!! I have now solved a big question mark I was trying to figure out. He did appear on a TV program at some point....but I would never had guessed Groucho's show. Ryan tells the story as happening in 1874...after his comrade dies he never returns to the seventh. He wrote a book titled ''Me and the Black Hills''. He was finally outed by Custer Battlefield Supt. Edward Luce who found out that Ryan was 65 years old and not the 95 he claimed to be. Ryan claimed, among other things, that the disaster at the LBH was Bloody Knife's fault. It was, he said, ''Bloody Knife that double-crossed Custer.'' Let's see, Bloody Knife betrays Custer, Mitch Bouyer shoots him and Buffalo Calf Woman finishes him off with an axe. You can't make this kind of stuff up....but they did!
And speaking of the BCW story the 'evidence' to the story that she killed GAC will be released by the end of the year 2005....oops, guess someone missed that deadline. Whatever happened to those people any how? ''Gone with the Wind,'' I guess.
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Post by Tricia on Feb 2, 2006 22:03:53 GMT -6
Scout--
Actually the story that was posted on the book threads here by the authors--about Buffalo Calf Road Woman--is avaliable through Amazon; I think for 12.95 (USD). It is entitled Buffalo Calf Road Woman: The Story of a Warrior of the Little Big Horn. However, without any reviews yet up, I was hoping someone here had purchased it to see how the author (it is fiction) spins her tale.
Its ISBN: 0762738170 Authors: Rosemary and Joseph Agnito
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Scout on Feb 3, 2006 8:31:44 GMT -6
Actually Leyton I was not talking at all about the Fictional book on BCW, but the very real press conference called last June by several Indian ''historians'' who said they would present real evidence of BCW killing Custer with an axe. The 'evidence' would be revealed by the end of the year. They're running a little late, don't cha think? That's ok...I can wait.
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