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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 11:00:54 GMT -6
DeRudio was and is, actually, tediously useful in a number of ways because of the tiny stuff which is huge. For example -'When Custer got to the Rosebud he broke up the squadron organization and DeRudio went back to Company A.'
This is huge, given that Reno was relieved of command duties on his return from the scout of the Tongue fiasco shambles as far as Custer was concerned. This was learnt from the Cooke correspondance.
'At five p.m. on June 24 Custer camped on the Rosebud at a place where the stream is very crooked and at 11:00 p.m. broke camp and started on. During the night Custer sent DeRudio back to instruct Keogh, who was rear guard, to get the pack train along faster and close up. Trumpeter Hardy was ordered to go with DeRudio and these two rode back 10 miles and found Keogh still in the Rosebud with sixteen mules stuck in the mud. The rest of the packs were scattered all along the trail for several miles. Hardy had a gray horse, and DeRudio was constantly in dread that they might be discovered by any Indians who might be loitering along the trail. However, they got back and found Keogh cursing the mules and the packers, and then he and Hardy returned to the front and had difficulty in locating Custer. On the way they encountered a band of whooping Indians and at first supposed they were being taken in by Sioux, but the party proved to be Tom Custer and some scouts who mistook DeRudio and Hardy for Sioux.'
Lovely stuff from the WMC DeRudio stuff in the Hammer stuff. It seems to me that Theodore Goldin may have been along on that ride back to check out Keogh and the mules. Worth looking into, that is since we can never get enough of Goldin, can we. You Know, Edgar I. Stewart researched it and accepted that he (Goldin) had carried a message fom Custer to Reno. That did wonders for his career.
Truly eye-oening stuff from the Italin noble - '. Custer had these glasses when he was killed. After crossing divide, Company A was in the advance. Soon after this DeRudio saw a freshly killed buffalo at the side of the trail and after inspection concluded that the buffalo had been killed that morning. After passing lone tepee, DeRudio stopped somewhere to fill his canteen and did not catch up with the command until it reached the river. Here he found Reno and Gerard sitting on horses in the river, Reno drinking from a bottle of whisky. DeRudio was the first man to ford the river, and as his horse surged ahead he splashed water on Reno, who said: ''What are you trying to do? Drown me before I am killed?"
Again, clearing up many authors and students misconceptions or swirling paddles in waters they trouble, Reno watered his battalion as it crossed the LBH river. It's often difficult to know which was what with the matter but Carlo tells us they watered and several others told the same. I believe that Maj. Reno became confused about this, or maybe thought it might reflect badly upon him, or he forgot. They watered horses crossing the river. It doesn't take long. 'Said timber on west side was 200 yards wide. At Ford A Reno's battalion watered horses and when men got clear of timber formed the companies and went forward down the valley. Does not think the delay here was long, but some little time before all who were watering horses got up and together. The column then leftfronted into line with Company A on right, G in center and M on left. The Indian scouts were ahead and to left going down the valley. Does not remember seeing them capture Sioux ponies.
Confirmation of the brief shoot and scoot engagement in the valley responsible for the disasier which befell Keogh and Yates shortly afterwards.
Says fight on skirmish line did not last over 10 minutes if it did that long. Does not remember sending from skirmish line for ammunition.
On skirmish line he found Sergeant White wounded and took his gun and fired two shots at Indians over on hills to west. Saw the bullets strike short of Indians, but could hear Indians' bullets whistling over his head, showing that Indians had superior guns. He took a squad of men and went into timber to go to north side of it to river bank to watch against Indians coming in from that direction across river. After he went in, Co. G sent into timber also. In the timber was a cleared place of 2 or 3 acres where there had been some lodges but had been taken away. In the timber was the dry gravelly bed of a creek or wash from river in high water. He took his small party and went over to river bank and presently Trumpeter McVeigh came in leading DeRudio's horse and said: "Here Lieut., is your horse." DeRudio said: "I do not want my horse," but McVeigh said: "They are leaving the timber, Lieut." but as DeRudio had heard no bugle calls he doubted McVeigh's statement. As McVeigh spoke, the party of men with DeRudio started to break and leave him and DeRudio tried to halt them calling to one of the men to get a guidon, but the man said: "To hell with the guidon, don't you see the Indians are coming in?" DeRudio looked and saw a party of Indians coming into the timber and the men with him all fled. He picked up the guidon and mounted and held the guidon across his lap and started out, but some Indians fired at him and he jumped down and kept quiet for a while. When he got to open plain he saw Reno and nearly the whole battalion in full retreat and some of men already across river climbing the bluffs. Charley Reynolds was kneeling on one knee firing at Indians and probably fired half dozen shots before Indians got him. He was just outside of timber. His horse had evidently been killed. DeRudio now led his horse to edge of timber and decided to ride through Indians and overtake command. Most of the Indians were in pursuit of command and he thought he could probably ride through without being noticed by the whole bunch. He was just trying to mount his frightened and trembling horse and had his foot in stirrup when a buck jumped out of the brush and fired and then began to yell, frightening both DeRudio and the horse, and the horse broke away. He thinks the horse was struck by the Indian's shot. This was on top of bank on south edge of timber. DeRudio dodged back into timber, and as he did so, the Indians at a distance ceased firing and set up a peculiar cry. Wondering what this could mean DeRudio looked out and saw the Indians pointing to bluffs and Benteen's battalion was in full view. DeRudio says this is what saved Reno's battalion from entire destruction.
The appearance of Benteen checked the pursuit after Reno. DeRudio says Reno should have held to the timber. Says there they would have had reasonable shelter, and Indians would never have come into the brush to fight, and Reno could easily have stood them off and held a thousand of them there who went down to fight Custer. There we have it, then. Let's see........... interview was February 2, 1910, with Carlo passing away in the November, that year after "Major DeRudio, A Man With a Charmed Life" was published in the Washington (D.C.) Star, October 16, 1910. Remarkable - I wonder if WMC contributed to that article Note, check article to compare with Hammer.
On morning of June 27, Gibbon came up the valley, and Bradley, who was with the flankers on the left, discovered the dead on Custer ridge. Later in the day, when Benteen was saddling up to go over to Custer battlefield, DeRudio asked to go along and Benteen told him he could take Sergeant Pahl's horse, as Pahl had been wounded. Bradley went along to guide Benteen. They followed the trail of the five companies to the river down Medicine Tail coulee. The whole command of five companies had gone nearly to the river, and two shod horses had gone quite to the river bank and the tracks seemed to indicate that they had shied around quickly in some blue clay as if turned suddenly by their riders. Says Custer's trail was in column of fours part of way but in one or two narrow places had changed to column of twos. The first dead man was near Ford B and about 150 yards from river. Says this man was not Sergt. Butler. He was neither stripped nor scalped.
DeRudio says the story published in fall of 1876 in New York Herald and other papers as coming from him was written by Major Brisbin. DeRudio had given Brisbin a statement of the facts with a promise from Brisbin that they were not to be published, but Brisbin violated the agreement. Says Brisbin colored up the story considerably
Brisbin colored up the story considerably................. well, well, well.......... Of, course there remains the question of why Kellogg's marker sits where it does but that is an edn of battle matter unless of course the end was the start if'n you know what I mean.
Well......... you know, DeRudio wrote a letter within days of the battle, and it is available somewhere..... now let me see..........
Plump 7 Adding................. much to follow. Thisis going rather well, is it not. Shall I say this in French............?
Note. If Goldin wasn't along on the night ride back to Keogh, then it may have been injected by Brininstool. What a lovely word and terrible habit.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 11:53:23 GMT -6
Would you like to see something remarkable? I played this on TV - Hola quite........... remarkable.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 12:04:49 GMT -6
You will notice something remarkable with the WMC interview.
No mention of Custer seen on the bluffs. That is remarkable, is it not - excuse my French.
The following is an extract from a letter dated December 20, 1922, to an unidentified correspondent from Walter Camp, a copy of which is in the editor's (Hammer) possession:
DeRudio personally did not write any newspaper stories in 1876, '77 or '78. There is a story written in the first person under the name of Lieut. DeRudio, but it was written by Major Brisbin, of the 2nd Cavalry. DeRudio told me this himself, and cautioned me not to take all of it seriously, saying that Brisbin "colored" it a good deal. The same story published in Helena paper in July, 1876, that you refer to was published or reprinted in a Louisville paper in 1878, also in the New York Herald, I think in 1876, and Brisbin got paid for them all. He made a good deal of money as a newspaper correspondent, and was the author of a number of books.
A good deal of money for published writing. God, I must try that................
I have delved into DeRudio's letter from Camp on N. side Yellowstone, July 5, '76 and guess what? Not a mention - nothing what all at all, at all, about sighting Custer on the bluffs. How about that, eh!
That leaves the Chicago Inquiry and maybe it's time to tear that apart, or what we have left of it. Salvation of the document as it exists in various forms today is a remarkable story and one which must be told. Ideas that the record we have today is complet, are entirely wrong as a number of experts in the topic know very well.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 13:04:13 GMT -6
Thomas F. O'Neill, born in Dublin, Ireland, was a private in Company G. He enlisted for the second time on January 17, 1872. He was cook for Lieutenant Donald McIntosh on the Sioux campaign until June 25. He retired as a first sergeant and died on March 23, 1914. His account is also in The Pacific Monthly, July 1908, p. 109. A copy of a three-page letter from Sergeant Thomas O'Neill to Brigadier General E. S. Godfrey with his account of the fight is in the Manuscript Room, New York Public Library.
Tom O'Neill's story given to me personally on October 12 [probably 1919] in Washington D.C. O'Neill says Custer came within 300 or 400 yards of river before he turned up to the right. He remembers the ford where Reno crossed as at a high bank. The trail split and went around a little rise of ground on which some of the Rees were sitting holding a council and discussing the numbers of the Sioux. One of these was picking up handfuls of grass and dropping it and pointing to the Sioux, who could be seen down and across the river, indicating that the Sioux were as thick as the grass. He [O'Neill] went to left of this knoll and down to the river through a dry ravine. On other side of river there were timber and fallen logs and took some time to get through. When about half way down to where skirmish line was formed he saw Custer and his whole command on the bluffs across the river, over to the east, at a point which he would think was about where Reno afterward fortified, or perhaps a little south of this. Custer's command were then going at a trot. He says that on the skirmish line there was no very hard fighting and thinks that but few effective shots could have been fired. The skirmish line could not have stood to exceed 20 min. The men were in good spirits, talking and laughing and not apprehensive of being defeated, and the Sioux, toward the village, were riding around kicking up a big dust but keeping pretty well out of range. Presently they saw the Sioux going around the left flank, which extended to a point about half way to the hills to the west. The men then ran to their horses and from behind the little rise of ground between timber and open plain they lay and fired at Indians for some time, Lieut. Hare occasionally borrowing a gun from Lieut. Wallace to try his marksmanship on the Indians as they would circle around. About this time there was a cry that the Indians were getting at the horses over toward the left flank and he [O'Neill] went with McIntosh and whole troop to investigate. They found the river at their back and no Indians in that direction. Reno was in the timber and apparently not excited. They then returned and found hot fire in front and men calling to hurry up as the Indians were pressing. In about 10 minutes Capt. Moylan ordered Troop A to mount. Hodgson inquired "Where you going Moylan?" and Moylan said he was going to charge. Lieut. Varnum remonstrated and said: "For God's sake men let's don't leave the line. There are enough of us here to whip the whole Sioux nation." Nevertheless the stampede was started and could not be stopped. As he (O'Neill) was mounting, his horse was shot, and seeing a horse without a rider, he mounted it; but immediately Trooper Martin came up and claimed the horse and so he gave him up to Martin, who was killed on the retreat. He then, with some others, followed on after the retreating column on foot. The Indians were riding on the right flank of the mounted men firing into them, and the first he knew he saw them behind coming for him. He then decided to get back to the timber and met Indians pursuing the column. When they would get too close he would take aim, and the Indian aimed at would hang over on opposite side of pony and pass on and in this way he stood off those inclined to get too close until he got to timber without being ridden down. One large Indian, however, rode right up onto him from behind, but he turned and shot him through with his carbine and Indian fell off. One dismounted soldier with him was killed getting to timber. He quickly reached the south side of the timber and as he ran in he saw De Rudio2 and soon joined. O'Neill going back to timber passed McIntosh coming out on McCormick's horse. McIntosh asked O'Neill where the command was. He next passed Rapp, the last man out who was leading McIntosh horse. Rapp inquired for "Tosh." The Indians soon came up and killed Rapp. Scouts Billy (probably Bob) Jackson, half-breed, and Gerard with their horses tied some distance away. De Rudio's horse had gotten away from him. Jackson and De Rudio were in buffalo wallow. Here they lay and watched the Indians passing back and forth out in the open. They immediately prepared to resist, but waited some time and no Indians came in. Gerard's horse began to whinny, and Jackson pulled a large bunch of grass, stuffed it into the horse's mouth, and tied it fast to keep the horse still. They could hear Indians all around and moved very cautiously, not going any considerable distance until after dark. During the afternoon they heard firing in direction of Custer, at one time three volleys, and O'Neill thinks all firing in direction over about 5:00 p.m. as nearly as he can estimate..................
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 3, 2024 13:09:59 GMT -6
Not gonna read much of that - as you were wrong right at the gate…and the rest is unrelated or does not support whatever points you are trying to make...just the opposite...
You rattled off a lot of...?? about Gerard - without saying anything. What was your point?
Then, You attribute to Herendeen what DeRudio said. Herendeen was there several seasons and called out Weir Hill as the highest point AND located it. Others like Martin & DeRudio, Knipe & Benteen & Edgerly concur and confirm that description and location, AND add in Custer being on it {also reno edgerly hare scouts etc confirm Custer on and/or confirm WH} - all this provided quite clearly. Overwhelming evidence - even without your nemesis Camp corroborating it further and even more specifically; with very little contrary information or statementsl, and so the case is closed.
'Kay. I'll take deRudio at his very consistent/correct/specific word as stated at the RCOI. Since its confirmed, and no reason exists and nothign contrary is suspported. For instance - you too can read his story you refer to in the papers, and see if even you can locate what the heck you are talking about. Its not there. DeRudio stated Brisbin colored his version, and did not take it seriously. Just a fact.
As is... "There is a story written in the first person under the name of Lieut. DeRudio, but it was written by Major Brisbin, of the 2nd Cavalry. DeRudio told me this himself, and cautioned me not to take all of it seriously, saying that Brisbin "colored" it a good deal"
AGAIN?!? You cannot be serious?? Cause you would STILL be wrong. {using BM "3411" - not a period identifier - not the right location} Benteen specifically stated Custer was on G. Record. Confirmed. Fact. SO as already shown…we sure can - 100%. EVERYONE PLACES CUSTER ON 7/G/WH. I posted just a few of the witnesses who say and/or describe exactly where Custer was. They Saw him. WERE WITH HIM. Knew the high points. And best of all - so many agree on that one location…Weir Hill/point 7/point 5/G/the highest point - all refer to that one place without doubt. Several identify Custer up there specifically.
It is not hard to read it.
But of course it is up to you that you prefer to ignore it all. If you have anything new that is based on fact, you could post it.
"When about half way down to where skirmish line was formed he saw Custer and his whole command on the bluffs across the river, over to the east, at a point which he would think was about where Reno afterward fortified"
Yep. And Varnum saw the grays just about there - '1/4 mile...'. And DeRudio saw Custer pause +/-1/2 mile passed there, just as Martin also said, to view the village. See Benteen's G.
"It was the highest point around there. I went on the top of it afterwards, on the 27th, with Captain Benteen.”
"Then the General took me with him and we rode to the top of the hill, where we could see the village in the valley on the other side of the river. It was a big village, but we couldn't see it all from there, though we didn't know it then; but several hundred tepees were in plain sight."
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 13:19:31 GMT -6
Interview with James Wilber (James W. Darcy), born in Baltimore, Maryland, enlisted in the 7th Cavalry in 1875. He was wounded in the left leg on the water party on June 26, 1876, in the Little Bighorn River fight, was discharged for disability on November 1, 1876, and retired to the National Soldiers' Home in Washington, D.C. His "Story of the Little Big Horn" is found in The Tepee Book (Sheridan, Wyoming: The Mills Co., 1916), p. 45. He died on July 13, 1920, at the Soldiers' Home. Was one of 10 men with Serg. John Ryan. When John Ryan and 10 men forded river, Cooke sat on bank on his horse. We were galloping fast, and just as we got to river Cooke called out: "For God's sake men, don't run those horses like that; you will need them in a few minutes." Wilber saw Cooke but did not see Keogh. On far side of ford went through considerable timber. John Ryan and 10 men actually went to Uncapapa tepees, and Rutten was among the tepees and from here his horse ran away, ditto John H. Meyer. Says Rutten's horse got farther into village than Meyer. Both got back to skirmish line after horse cut a circle with them. That is to say, Ryan and 10 men got a good ways ahead of skirmish line. Sergeant O'Hara was killed near the tepees and was first man killed in battle. Wilber says Hodgson grabbed stirrup of Trumpeter Fisher of M troop in crossing river in retreat. Lieut. Bradley and an orderly discovered Custer's body as Terry's column was passing up river on a.m. of June 27. Howard, the milk peddler at Ft. Lincoln, was one of the scouts but did not get to river on June 25. He lingered behind somewhere and first got up to column a few minutes after DeRudio and Tom O'Neill came in on morning of June 27. Wilber thinks he has a ranch somewhere near Ft. Lincoln now. Wilber says Dick Hanley told him that a C troop man left Custer later than Trumpeter Martin. Wilber says 4 Crows were with Reno on hill two days. Wilber says he saw four Crows on hill with Reno during the two days. Wilber says that on Reno's march down to ford, M troop was ahead, A next and G last and that when he forded, Adjt. Cooke was on the river bank. Custer wanted to take band beyond Powder River, but Terry would not consent to it. Patrick Corcoran - Company K. Discharged for disability in 1877, resided in NSH, Washington D.C.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 13:37:28 GMT -6
Plain and simple, DeRudio saw Benteen. It is a Brisbinism which lumped Custer into that as a tall tale which DeRudio went along with. Go figure. Why didn't DeRudio tell WMC about sighting Custer? We could get into this but Chicago is full of stuff beyond unreliable which those primed with it, promptly forgot into later years. Kanipe reporting to McDougall, is the classic. People do not remember falsehoods unless going entirely out of their way to do so, for the rest of their lives. This is a trait of human nature as also your willingness to suck up WMC ala mode and regurgitate into crepe windscreen. WMC is one of a host who for reasons of tribute and history, drove the stry into pedantry which appeals to, and attracts, those who love life's jigsaw puzzle's because they are overly bright beyond anything sensible. You are point blank wrong. Who indicated to WMC that Custer went to the high Point which so intrigues you? Weir went there but not with Custer. Benteen indicated it on a map. How anyone interprets Egerley being there, if they do, is simply misguided. Did Martin go there? Maybe he was alongside Benteen but if so, that is only assumption because no-one noted it. Some enlisted men may have been there. Beyond this, nothing, no way, at, of note or importance took place on your idea of Weir's Hill. It is irrelevant. So, who indicated in WMC's presence, that Custer went on the bluffs in that area because that is the point of your entire thrust. It was not DeRudio, since it was Brisbin who said DeRudio saw Custer there. DeRudio did not other than at Chicago and what he said there is an imossibility - as I have consistently told you. He did not see Custer there because Custer was not there but because at the distance which he stated it is impossible for a human being to recognise anothe. Absolutely impossible. Study the transcripts about hoew the questioning came about and then, consider why DeRudio was talking rubbish about it.
You need to up your game into reality. Real World nuts and bolts. Yu cannot identify a figure at 1,000 yards and neither could DeRudio. Doesn't mean Custer wasn't there but it does mean DeRudio was talking rubbish snared on Brisbin's petard.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 13:38:21 GMT -6
You try being an LT, calleing a cavalry colonel a liar! Give it a go one day - career over!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 3, 2024 13:41:15 GMT -6
Oh so NOT Weir anymore?? Yes he did see Benteen - as he stated - near ford A. THAT was NOT where he stated he saw Custer. HE SAW Benteen approaching A, WHILE Reno retreated; HE SAW Custer at the highest point 7, 5-10mins BEFORE Reno retreated. Curious how many more names will you toss out that DeRudio saw WITH NO FACTUAL INFO TO SUPPORT any of it? He said he SAW Custer. Right where Custer was confirmed to be. Read the RCOI! STOP telling us how EVERYONE who was there is wrong or lying re: what hill Custer was on! ITS just goofy! - it makes no sense. I keep telling you also - You can choose to forget WMC! YOU DO NOT need him for this. Read the RCOI. There is plenty right there. on edit: Ah NOW I see - you just dont like the RCOI either...LOL! Well that'll hurt. Huh - If only Curtis did more with the scouts huh? You would finally have evidence you like...or not. Too goofy. Well - you have fun with that!
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 13:48:58 GMT -6
You based in DeRudio. It's rubbish and i've explained why.
Now, do yourself some good and read up on the 10 man detail which reached the village during the charge down the valley. !0 men with Sgt. Ryan. There have been quite brilliant discussions and insights across the boards on this topic and you need to get onboard and figure it out. Stand down your Weir Hill crusade and do something entirely constructve, please. Pretty please. I hope one day, that someone rooting aronund will turn up Reno's bottle with fingerprints intact. Imagine that going to auction! Yey!
You were wrong - move on.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 3, 2024 14:01:21 GMT -6
Your "explanations" & inventions - while numerous & imaginative, are usually based solely in opinion & inapplicable/altered/incorrect data (& get buried in off-topic gack). When studied, most often turn out to be unsupported. I consistently find I can not take such "explanations" & inventions serious at all, especially when you state them as facts when they clearly arent true.. Yes - I am based in primary statements: DeRudio, yes - AND Martin, AND Herendeen, AND Benteen, AND Edgerly, and ALL the numerous others, who 99% all nicely corroborate. {I.E. it is EDGERLY who said HE was there...(highest pt7/8/9)...HE specificly confirmed this. It is MARTIN who said HE was there - WITH GC - at the highest pt7/8; HE distinctly confirmed the GC view from WH, & his own advance/return too. Like DeRudio, MARTIN also located/described pt7, & both are consistent (pt 7/WH/highest/1st look/river/.5mile). DERUDIO knew when indians left Reno, AFTER Reno retreated; HE knew when HE SAW Benteen approaching A, WHILE Reno retreated; HE SAW Custer at the highest point, BEFORE Reno retreated. BENTEEN MARKED AND located it (G/highest/1st look/.5mile), confirmed on site WITH DERUDIO (7/highest/.5mile/river/DeWolf) AND MARTIN (1st look/7/WH/highest pt/.5mile/river). KNIPE too (highest) who was also there several times. HERENDEEN named AND located WH (highest/WH/.5mile). RENO concurred (WH/highest/summit). HARE confirmed the high point (5/7/.5mile). VARNUM saw the Gray troops on the high ridge near where they retreated to (.25mile from Reno). Hare/GODFREY described their retreat just past WH/Martins Ridge to a skirmish at Reno retreat & located WH. ALL this and more, all in agreement. & don’t forget all the others besides Knipe, & Edgerly & Hare & Godfrey & scouts & Wallace etc. outside the RCOI. We CAN even throw in WMC to confirm exact locations - as HE was there with Godfrey, knipe, Curley, etc.} I know YOU insist THEY were ALL wrong, misguided and/or lying, and the RCOI is a travesty. So you try to “explain” a dozen+ primary sources away, with NO witness statements, no F/ACTUAL evidence for back up. Simply you saying they are all wrong does not work. Please have someone actually there, or better yet 2 or 3 someones - tell us. You flail at this because?...Why? I guess we just can NOT have Custer on a high hill getting his look at the village right where the witnesses all say - well, at least not THAT high hill...because...?? WMC?? HR theories on Notions of Relative Distances, Terrain Heights, & IDs?? Smudges?? Digital alterations?? Vendettas and self motivations?? Newspaper buzz?? People who can't turn their heads?? River routes/maps that dont exist?? Referred-to 'statements' that are never posted?? Mystical locations that were actually not indicated?? HR rules where up is down & below is above?? Witnesses who saw anyone/no one/everyone, except whom they said, right where they actually were? Made up & empty arguments? For the 100th time, all this actual 1st person evidence does not rely on WMC. And you dont need to either. Cling to Curtis the photo guy & his joke of a take re: Custer "at the top of the hill, silhouetted against the sky, he and his staff went at once to the summit" which CURTIS marked at the lowest spot on the ridge & 1/2 way down a water carrier ravine!
Good luck with THAT! I am moving along…too tedious, just to go over the same stuff again and again - and get no where or learn anything new with any factual/actual revelations. on Edit: FWIW - the C trooper who reportedly left after Kanipe could be the 1 Martin saw in Cedar Coulee. Start a new thread when you have new topic...this one is way beyond its purpose.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 3, 2024 14:23:54 GMT -6
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Post by herosrest on Jan 13, 2024 8:47:59 GMT -6
DeRudio examined ineffectually. The issue with DeRudio, is that he never saw anyone up upon the bluffs to even 'think' he knew who they were. He followed the trail of the march, on the 27th with Benteen's advance to Maguire's B and Battle Ridge. He spotted a minor trail from the route onto the bluffs nearer the river and below (downriver) of Weir Point. We know, where he didn't, that Crow scouts went there.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 14, 2024 7:00:57 GMT -6
Sure. anyone. everyone. weir benteen no one. Whatever and whomever you dream up THIS time. psst DeRudios saw Custer right where Custer was...on the highest point 7. "We have found and tested the 3,411 site several times, and yes, you can identify people up there from down in the valley. "Stanislas Roy "DeRudio was on the line when first formed, but I did not see him later, but cence I have learnt that he had bin ordered to the right with a squad of men to protect the Horses"Of course GC wasn't on "3411", he was at the summit of the higher/est point 7, which DeRudio & Martin confirmed, but here we have another unsupported 'theory' & mystcal statement shot to pieces. DeRudio, RCOI "The only observation I made was while I was in the woods. General Custer, Lieutenant Cooke and another man I could not recognize came to the highest point of the bluff and waved their hats and made motions like they were cheering, and pretty soon disappeared. I judge by that that probably his column was behind the bluff. Q. Where was that? A. It was on the highest point on the right bank of the creek, just below where Dr. DeWolf was killed...The witness then designated on the map by the figure “7,” about the point where he saw General Custer
Q. About how far do you think it was from the point on the bluff occupied by Major Reno? A. I think it could not have been more than 5 or 600 yards. It was a higher point but lower down on the river. Was it the highest point down the stream? A. Yes, sir, and upstream too. It was the highest point around there. I went on the top of it afterwards, on the 27th, with Captain Benteen. Q. What is the distance between where you saw General Custer and this point “B”? A. I judge between 3 and 3 1/2 miles, this map don’t give the correct distance. I think I went over the ground on the morning of the 27th with Captain Benteen, and followed the trail of General Custer down that coulee to the ford, and from that ford up over the bluff. Q. Did you ever go to the point where you saw General Custer? A. Yes, sir. Q. Then from that point did you have such a view of the village as to see every Indian tepee? A. When I was there the tepees were all gone. Q. Could you see the ground that had been occupied by the tepees? A. No, sir, not all of it. Q. Could you, from that point, see everything that was going on in the timber? A. Yes, sir, I had a regular bird’s eye view of it. Q. Were you not on low ground in the bottom and did you not see those men against the sky? A. Yes, sir, they were on the top of the bluff and that was why I could recognize them.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 14, 2024 7:48:21 GMT -6
DeRudio, RCOI "The only observation I made was while I was in the woods. General Custer, Lieutenant Cooke and another man I could not recognize came to the highest point of the bluff and waved their hats and made motions like they were cheering, and pretty soon disappeared. I judge by that that probably his column was behind the bluff.Varnum "...just as I joined it from the left and front, looking on the bluffs across the river to our right I saw the Gray Horse Company of the regiment moving down along those bluffs.A. It was back from the actual edge of the bluffs. The head and the rear of the column were both behind the edge of the bluffs in a sort of hollow and I just happened to catch sight of about the whole of the Gray Horse Company.A. That is difficult to answer. I think they were a little farther down than where we struck the bluffs we came upon them and not quite so far down as the figure “2” in pencil on the map.Q. Where do you fix that point on the map? A. I can’t fix it on the map....Assuming that the position of Major Reno’s command on the hill is correct it was probably a quarter of a mile below that or something like that.point 2, 5, & 7, & bluffs just below Reno/DeWolf..
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