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Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 22, 2015 12:54:49 GMT -6
Hi AZ That is what they had done all day but that is not what he said. He said they followed the other companyHe said one of his companies had gone and that he thought the bulk of the remainder followed that movement. Benteen acted exactly as Weir did, going off on his own hook. That Moylan was having problems moving the wounded doesn't change that he was ordered to do it. He was needing help to accomplish the order of moving the wounded. Of course the wounded and pack train moved slowerAgain Moylan had to beg Mc Dougal for help.Benteen with the companies which followed him were 1.5 miles to the North ;heading for some unknow destination while the wounded were left to fend for themselves . Benteen lost control of his battalion. One of his companies was North of Weir Point ,he was in transit with 3 companies in tow while the packs and wounded were back on Reno hill with the CO somewhere on the trail. A lovely state of affairs. Reno sent Hare to order Weir to open communications with Custer. Reno states he ordered the movement in his testimony. Benteen states Reno got to Weir at the same time or nearly the same timeThat was damage limitation. Cheers Richard I don't recall Benteen going past Weir Point and Reno was right there with him according to Benteen. They would be in sight of those following. It would be good know that the high place was full of troops rather than Indians waiting for them I would think. Regards Steve
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 22, 2015 13:17:16 GMT -6
Hi Dave I am amazed that you have determined what the LBH affair means to Americans. I have no idea where you discovered this so called "issue is that a hero is required to save face" concept.An ecco from the shock and disbelief that deflated the centenial celebrations. The terminology used to describe the Indians . No credit given to the Indians for a well executed counter to the columns sent against them . And If I recall some years ago you lost a sportsman turned soldier in Afganistan and some misleading statements were put out about his death. Not to mention a young female soldier who was captured when her convoy was wiped out. It happens all the time Dave .We saw it here from our own military following a cockup in the Congo. Just look at how the battle has retained its description down all the years....Custer's Last Stand . A more accurate description would be The Custer Massacre . Best Wishes The more excuses I hear about why Custer failed to win something he should have won brings me to the wimpy excuses why the New England Patriots continue to win. It's not because of air in a football, it's not because of not knowing the playbook, it's not because someone was "spying" on you, it's not because of headphones, it's not because of the stadium noise, it's not because the sun was in your eyes, it's not because the wind was blowing, it's not because it was to hot or to cold . . . it's because you screwed up and lost a "game" you could have won and start blaming everyone else but yourself. This is what the LBH is . . . the 7th had all the advantages, the firepower, the organization, the discipline, the leadership, the Great White Race theory and you end up losing because you got outplayed, outcoached, outthought, outfought, out-everything. The 7th lost because they talked a great game but when it came to playing on the field . . . they screwed up big time and lost a game they should have won! Go Pats!
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Post by fred on Sept 22, 2015 14:05:01 GMT -6
The more excuses I hear about why Custer failed to win something he should have won brings me to the wimpy excuses why the New England Patriots continue to win. The Patriots win for two reasons: (1) they have a top-5 all-time quarterback, and (2) they have, quite possibly, the best coach who ever coached the game. And if not the best coach, then certainly a top-3 coach, right up there alongside Don Shula and Vince Lombardi. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 22, 2015 14:50:18 GMT -6
Fred My Frhiend:
Tom Brady has earned the accolades as being the best QB of all time. What he has done throughout his career and continues to do at his "advanced" age is beyond comparison. Brady has earned the respect of his teammates who are willing to give their all to make the "team" succeed. Belichick has also earned the accolades as the best NFL coach of all time even surpassing Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Shula and whoever else. What he has achieved with what he has to work with his beyond comparison. He brings in players no one has heard of and they contribute, he brings him "over-the-hill" players and they contribute, he brings in players with "issues" and they buckle down and become New England Patriots. The Patriots don't use wimpy excuses when they lose, they don't use the football had less air, they don't use the headphones aren't working, they don't use it was to hot, to cold, the sun was in our eyes when they lose. They say they got out-played, out-coached and out-fought. Real men don't use excuses . . . they admit they screwed up and move on. The excuses I hear about why Custer lost are endless and at times cry-baby-ish. Every excuse for the Custer-Lovers are used . . . blame everyone else for the defeat. Don't take any responsibility. Don't give any credit to your opponent. The sun was in my eyes, Benteen failed to obey orders, Reno was drunk, the Indians were only able to win because the 7th failed to do anything right. The Indians outnumered the soldiers, the soldiers guns locked up, Sitting Bull went to West Point, etc., etc., etc. The US Military (at that time) and the NFL have become "sissified", "pansified", "wimpified". Suck it up, admit you made mistakes, it was your fault and stop blaming everyone else for your failings!
Now that I've gotten that out of my system . . . all I can say is the Pats will go undefeated once again, but this time there'll win the Super Bowl unlike the 2008 & 2012 seasons when they screwed up and failed to make a defensive stop against the Giants. They manned up about it and didn't blame anyone else. It's time Custer Lovers admit their hero screwed up, failed to unite his command into a cohesive unit and thought, like Rex Ryan that he could bully and talk his way to a victory!
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Post by wild on Sept 22, 2015 16:19:33 GMT -6
Seems like I struck a chord.
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Post by montrose on Sept 22, 2015 16:21:09 GMT -6
Yeah,
B Flat.
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Post by wild on Sept 22, 2015 17:19:24 GMT -6
Major ?
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Post by dan25 on Sept 22, 2015 17:24:19 GMT -6
Wild In regards to those maps, is any of them correct, specificly "map 30" ? Also did you get a chance to go to the other site and read Reno's report that he sent July 5th ? This is for anyone on the forum, when you have the time, please go to the 2 web sites below and let me know if this information is correct. Map 30 is the one that has me confused. www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/atlas_of_the_sioux_wars-2006-pt2.pdfReno's report July 5th The most important part is where Reno states he sent Weir to find Custer. Is this at all correct? www.littlebighorn.info/Articles/Reports.htmThank you ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred Did you check those Muster Rolls from my post on the 20th, on page six? dan 25
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Post by edavids on Sept 22, 2015 17:45:02 GMT -6
The more excuses I hear about why Custer failed to win something he should have won brings me to the wimpy excuses why the New England Patriots continue to win. The Patriots win for two reasons: (1) they have a top-5 all-time quarterback, and (2) they have, quite possibly, the best coach who ever coached the game. And if not the best coach, then certainly a top-3 coach, right up there alongside Don Shula and Vince Lombardi. Best wishes, Fred. Bill Walsh.
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Post by edavids on Sept 22, 2015 17:46:55 GMT -6
Fred My Frhiend: Tom Brady has earned the accolades as being the best QB of all time. What he has done throughout his career and continues to do at his "advanced" age is beyond comparison. Brady has earned the respect of his teammates who are willing to give their all to make the "team" succeed. Belichick has also earned the accolades as the best NFL coach of all time even surpassing Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Shula and whoever else. What he has achieved with what he has to work with his beyond comparison. He brings in players no one has heard of and they contribute, he brings him "over-the-hill" players and they contribute, he brings in players with "issues" and they buckle down and become New England Patriots. The Patriots don't use wimpy excuses when they lose, they don't use the football had less air, they don't use the headphones aren't working, they don't use it was to hot, to cold, the sun was in our eyes when they lose. They say they got out-played, out-coached and out-fought. Real men don't use excuses . . . they admit they screwed up and move on. The excuses I hear about why Custer lost are endless and at times cry-baby-ish. Every excuse for the Custer-Lovers are used . . . blame everyone else for the defeat. Don't take any responsibility. Don't give any credit to your opponent. The sun was in my eyes, Benteen failed to obey orders, Reno was drunk, the Indians were only able to win because the 7th failed to do anything right. The Indians outnumered the soldiers, the soldiers guns locked up, Sitting Bull went to West Point, etc., etc., etc. The US Military (at that time) and the NFL have become "sissified", "pansified", "wimpified". Suck it up, admit you made mistakes, it was your fault and stop blaming everyone else for your failings! Now that I've gotten that out of my system . . . all I can say is the Pats will go undefeated once again, but this time there'll win the Super Bowl unlike the 2008 & 2012 seasons when they screwed up and failed to make a defensive stop against the Giants. They manned up about it and didn't blame anyone else. It's time Custer Lovers admit their hero screwed up, failed to unite his command into a cohesive unit and thought, like Rex Ryan that he could bully and talk his way to a victory! Bart Starr-5 titles. To rub it in: Manning to Tyree!! ;-)
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Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 22, 2015 20:20:19 GMT -6
Wild In regards to those maps, is any of them correct, specificly "map 30" ? Also did you get a chance to go to the other site and read Reno's report that he sent July 5th ? This is for anyone on the forum, when you have the time, please go to the 2 web sites below and let me know if this information is correct. Map 30 is the one that has me confused. www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/atlas_of_the_sioux_wars-2006-pt2.pdfReno's report July 5th The most important part is where Reno states he sent Weir to find Custer. Is this at all correct? www.littlebighorn.info/Articles/Reports.htmThank you ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fred Did you check those Muster Rolls from my post on the 20th, on page six? dan 25 No it is not correct. Weir left with one trooper to the high point. He never went past that high point.
Hare was sent to tell Weir to open communications with Custer. That would require him to move from Weir Point. He did not follow the order because there was to many Indians.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 22, 2015 20:26:17 GMT -6
In Viet Nam sometimes we had listening posts which were an early warning of activity approaching the main body. If someone wanted to do that in this battle then Weir Point would be a good place. Whatever term they used Weir went there to see what he could and took his orderly.
Edgerly went a little further into harms way but it was not Weir that ordered him to move away from Reno.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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shaw
Full Member
Posts: 187
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Post by shaw on Sept 22, 2015 22:31:23 GMT -6
Fred My Frhiend: Tom Brady has earned the accolades as being the best QB of all time. What he has done throughout his career and continues to do at his "advanced" age is beyond comparison. Brady has earned the respect of his teammates who are willing to give their all to make the "team" succeed. Belichick has also earned the accolades as the best NFL coach of all time even surpassing Lombardi, Halas, Landry, Shula and whoever else. What he has achieved with what he has to work with his beyond comparison. He brings in players no one has heard of and they contribute, he brings him "over-the-hill" players and they contribute, he brings in players with "issues" and they buckle down and become New England Patriots. The Patriots don't use wimpy excuses when they lose, they don't use the football had less air, they don't use the headphones aren't working, they don't use it was to hot, to cold, the sun was in our eyes when they lose. They say they got out-played, out-coached and out-fought. Real men don't use excuses . . . they admit they screwed up and move on. The excuses I hear about why Custer lost are endless and at times cry-baby-ish. Every excuse for the Custer-Lovers are used . . . blame everyone else for the defeat. Don't take any responsibility. Don't give any credit to your opponent. The sun was in my eyes, Benteen failed to obey orders, Reno was drunk, the Indians were only able to win because the 7th failed to do anything right. The Indians outnumered the soldiers, the soldiers guns locked up, Sitting Bull went to West Point, etc., etc., etc. The US Military (at that time) and the NFL have become "sissified", "pansified", "wimpified". Suck it up, admit you made mistakes, it was your fault and stop blaming everyone else for your failings! Now that I've gotten that out of my system . . . all I can say is the Pats will go undefeated once again, but this time there'll win the Super Bowl unlike the 2008 & 2012 seasons when they screwed up and failed to make a defensive stop against the Giants. They manned up about it and didn't blame anyone else. It's time Custer Lovers admit their hero screwed up, failed to unite his command into a cohesive unit and thought, like Rex Ryan that he could bully and talk his way to a victory! Bart Starr-5 titles. To rub it in: Manning to Tyree!! ;-)
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shaw
Full Member
Posts: 187
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Post by shaw on Sept 22, 2015 22:33:05 GMT -6
Greatest QB: Montana (the other one ). The man not the state.
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Post by tubman13 on Sept 23, 2015 7:24:03 GMT -6
The trouble with the Benteen issue is that a hero is required to save face. The operations of the 7th along thw LBH are so depressing , so incompetant that the whole sorry affair demands a hero. There is a bias on this board and among our friends in the adjoining parish . It is subliminal and you guys would not notice it, but to me not being from your side of the pond it is so obvious.Nationalism,race and professional pride colour your perception . Far better that you reinstate the victim of this tragedy Reno an honest soldier than you hide your embarrisment behind a false hero. Yours truely Richard, while I do not agree with the above, I understand it. Perception becomes reality, but I see no hero's or goats Reno vs Benteen. I see two men doing the best they could to salvage a very difficult situation. Far from perfect in execution, both. They played the cards dealt them, unfortunately GAC slipped more than a few jokers in the deck. Neither knew what they didn't know.
Regards, Tom
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