|
Post by Colt45 on Jul 12, 2015 19:33:46 GMT -6
Let me answer my own questions. Keogh would have done what Benteen did. Benteen would have either fallen back on Custer, found a better place to defend, or died in situ. Death would have probably have been dealt in at least two of Benteen's options. Regards, om What area do you consider more defensible? Should Keogh have selected one place and concentrate his power so he did not spread everyone so thin or do you think Custer dictated placement? Beth, Keogh would have been better off to go on a mobile defense of the Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge area. We discussed this some time ago. The terrain where Keogh's battalion was located had no real value, therefore no need to be defended in place. Staying mobile would have allowed Keogh to cover the area better, plus be able to get out of harms way and not get fixed in what is now the Keogh sector.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:34:57 GMT -6
I have always leaned to the idea that Keogh was hit just as he was preparing to move. Not a good thing. This would explain the move of C off the ridge as a preparatory clear out that went terribly wrong. I also wonder when Keogh personally was wounded as this would have a bearing on things. Put the two together?? Cheers Keogh's wound was a serious leg wound that shattered the bone. Not fatal in itself (unless it bled heavily) but certainly debilitating. The fact that this wound appeared to have coincided with a wound in his horse's side has led some to conclude that he was wounded while mounted, which was likely the case only very early in the engagement. Finally another voice of reason. Great post jodak.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:38:25 GMT -6
What area do you consider more defensible? Should Keogh have selected one place and concentrate his power so he did not spread everyone so thin or do you think Custer dictated placement? Beth, Keogh would have been better off to go on a mobile defense of the Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge area. We discussed this some time ago. The terrain where Keogh's battalion was located had no real value, therefore no need to be defended in place. Staying mobile would have allowed Keogh to cover the area better, plus be able to get out of harms way and not get fixed in what is now the Keogh sector. All great except for the small matter of orders. Keogh was not a free agent as much as you would like him to have been. Keep to the facts and leave your agenda at the door big boy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:40:06 GMT -6
I have always leaned to the idea that Keogh was hit just as he was preparing to move. Not a good thing. This would explain the move of C off the ridge as a preparatory clear out that went terribly wrong.I also wonder when Keogh personally was wounded as this would have a bearing on things. Put the two together?? Cheers Mac,
If that happened. and it is a big "if", wouldn't it take us back to the title of the thread?
What caused a leadership vacuum? Was it too many junior officers in the wrong place, or was the entire ethos of this regiment compromised?
Why did the battalion quickly collapse and take another battalion down with it?
There were no hostiles further down the valley. There were no hostiles to the east.
WO
After all the garbage you spew you are going to claim this as "big if". Have you lost all sense?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:41:59 GMT -6
Beth, 1.To the west there would have been a better field of fire for the carbine. But truth be told, everything happened too fast. 2. My guess, Custer suggested/ ordered location. Tom,
It's a horrible one to face up to, isn't it? Was Keogh too afraid to move north and avoid disaster? Or was he wounded and the battalion command collapsed?
We know the Keogh battalion was awfully weak on command and control, with practically nothing in the way of leadership if anything happened to him.
Reno knew he had French and Moylan, Benteen knew he had Weir. What did Keogh have? Diddly squat.
WO
Too afraid?!?!?!?!? The only fear shown that day was by Reno and his buddy Benteen. You are sick if you think or suggest Keogh was afraid.
|
|
|
Post by welshofficer on Jul 12, 2015 19:42:26 GMT -6
I have always leaned to the idea that Keogh was hit just as he was preparing to move. Not a good thing. This would explain the move of C off the ridge as a preparatory clear out that went terribly wrong. I also wonder when Keogh personally was wounded as this would have a bearing on things. Put the two together?? Cheers Keogh's wound was a serious leg wound that shattered the bone. Not fatal in itself (unless it bled heavily) but certainly debilitating. The fact that this wound appeared to have coincided with a wound in his horse's side has led some to conclude that he was wounded while mounted, which was likely the case only very early in the engagement. Jodak,
How would Keogh exercise battalion command whilst dismounted?
Look how dispersed out of mutual support those 3 companies were....?
But a breakdown in battalion command following Keogh's incapacitation would be plausible. Remind me, where was TWC...?
WO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:46:09 GMT -6
Keogh's wound was a serious leg wound that shattered the bone. Not fatal in itself (unless it bled heavily) but certainly debilitating. The fact that this wound appeared to have coincided with a wound in his horse's side has led some to conclude that he was wounded while mounted, which was likely the case only very early in the engagement. Jodak,
How would Keogh exercise battalion command whilst dismounted?
Look how dispersed out of mutual support those 3 companies were....?
But a breakdown in battalion command following Keogh's incapacitation would be plausible. Remind me, where was TWC...?
WO
Quick WO.....man the spin station. All hands on deck!!! We have a leak.
|
|
|
Post by welshofficer on Jul 12, 2015 19:46:52 GMT -6
What area do you consider more defensible? Should Keogh have selected one place and concentrate his power so he did not spread everyone so thin or do you think Custer dictated placement? Beth, Keogh would have been better off to go on a mobile defense of the Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge area. We discussed this some time ago. The terrain where Keogh's battalion was located had no real value, therefore no need to be defended in place. Staying mobile would have allowed Keogh to cover the area better, plus be able to get out of harms way and not get fixed in what is now the Keogh sector. Colt,
It held NO value by the time that Keogh deployed.
The rest is an excellent post, if you don't mind me saying.
WO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:48:26 GMT -6
Beth, Keogh would have been better off to go on a mobile defense of the Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge area. We discussed this some time ago. The terrain where Keogh's battalion was located had no real value, therefore no need to be defended in place. Staying mobile would have allowed Keogh to cover the area better, plus be able to get out of harms way and not get fixed in what is now the Keogh sector. Colt,
It held NO value by the time that Keogh deployed.
The rest is an excellent post, if you don't mind me saying.
WO
I know this is hard for you to comprehend but Keogh was following orders.
|
|
|
Post by Beth on Jul 12, 2015 19:49:05 GMT -6
Beth, 1.To the west there would have been a better field of fire for the carbine. But truth be told, everything happened too fast. 2.My guess, Custer suggested/ordered location. I wonder if that area to the west is the same spot that the first time I was at LBH, I wondered why they didn't fight there, instead of on battle ridge. Of course I was of a tender age and not well informed at the time. (or if you prefer young and dumb).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:49:27 GMT -6
Careful Jodak, you are threading on dangerous grounds. Don't disagree or introduce new ideas; you might be the next one they try to run out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:50:13 GMT -6
Beth, 1.To the west there would have been a better field of fire for the carbine. But truth be told, everything happened too fast. 2.My guess, Custer suggested/ordered location. I wonder if that area to the west is the same spot that the first time I was at LBH, I wondered why they didn't fight there, instead of on battle ridge. Of course I was of a tender age and not well informed at the time. (or if you prefer young and dumb). Not much has changed; just old and dumb instead.
|
|
|
Post by welshofficer on Jul 12, 2015 19:50:54 GMT -6
Let me answer my own questions. Keogh would have done what Benteen did. Benteen would have either fallen back on Custer, found a better place to defend, or died in situ. Death would have probably have been dealt in at least two of Benteen's options. Regards, om What area do you consider more defensible? Should Keogh have selected one place and concentrate his power so he did not spread everyone so thin or do you think Custer dictated placement? Beth,
Keogh should have stayed mobile. Look at the distance between companies. Look at the distance from Calhoun's skirmish line to his horse-holders.
WO
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:52:45 GMT -6
Any potential new members thinking of joining...unless you plan to agree 100% with the close minded clowns on the board, I would suggest looking elsewhere. These people are not in favor of open dialogue and the sharing of ideas.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 19:53:35 GMT -6
What area do you consider more defensible? Should Keogh have selected one place and concentrate his power so he did not spread everyone so thin or do you think Custer dictated placement? Beth,
Keogh should have stayed mobile. Look at the distance between companies. Look at the distance from Calhoun's skirmish line to his horse-holders.
WO
More spin.....hard to stay mobile when you and your horse have been shot.
|
|