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Post by wild on Jul 30, 2015 14:24:19 GMT -6
Just to echo AZ's sentiments re Montrose's observation.
He did not withdraw from the handful of Indians 3 meters from the ford,. He saw the massive force in the village, and withdrew. Well I think that massive force were onto him immediately ,much the same way as they were onto Reno. Difference being Reno managed to form line and face them and managed when outflanked to get his force into cover of the timber.It was when , as we all know , he ran for it , that he came to grief.Same with Custer ;turned his back and paid dearly. Hurrah
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Post by wild on Jul 30, 2015 14:58:14 GMT -6
Just to compliment Michael on his post. The great thing about posts like that is that they contribute to the overall dynamic and trigger further discussion . Having said that I disagree 100% but not to worry I'm in a minority of 1 on this issue. Briefly ; Custer had no means of remote command and control.Once a unit is detached it is gone .For all practical purposes it is on it's own . Custer as Montrose has pointed out shys away from the village because of the massive force there. Now I have counted 8 troop maneuvers suggested by Michael . Are we to believe that Custer with massive numbers of angry residents minutes away from his puny force thinks he can engage in a tattoo ? He is screaming for Benteen but yet divides his force to pursue recces,to take isolated hill tops , to see off handfuls of first responders ?; any and every maneuver under the sun rather than consolidate and husband his force. You can write any tactical scenario you like to fit the mess but you must first discredit the simple solution that Custer suffered a rout. [With apologies to Fred ] Hurrah
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 31, 2015 12:01:58 GMT -6
Just to echo AZ's sentiments re Montrose's observation. He did not withdraw from the handful of Indians 3 meters from the ford,. He saw the massive force in the village, and withdrew.
Well I think that massive force were onto him immediately ,much the same way as they were onto Reno. Difference being Reno managed to form line and face them and managed when outflanked to get his force into cover of the timber.It was when , as we all know , he ran for it , that he came to grief.Same with Custer ;turned his back and paid dearly. Hurrah Re: "Massive Force" Do you mean "Massive Force" per the Civil War when you had thousands of southern troops with artillery, modern firearms, organization, leadership, etc.? If so then Custer must have felt the "Massive Force" of warriors at the LBH were on par with the Southern Forces of the Civil War and he had better retreat from unorganized, untrained, undisciplined and unworthy savages! If so then Custer failed to just hit the "savages" because they would just as soon run as stand up to the greatest military force in the world!
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Post by welshofficer on Jul 31, 2015 13:13:07 GMT -6
He is screaming for Benteen Wild,
Was GAC? How?
WO
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Post by wild on Aug 1, 2015 0:53:07 GMT -6
Ho WO Big Viallage Bring packs Be quick
And that after he sees Reno stalled followed immediately by his own failure at MTCF. The scream grew more urgent with the passage of time . Hurrah
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Post by wild on Aug 1, 2015 1:02:43 GMT -6
hi crzhrs Do you mean "Massive Force" per the Civil War No Force as per LBH . You know as per odds of 10 to 1 with repeating rifles unencumbered by single leadership ,not requiring recce ,and having already beaten a civil war standard column. Hurrah
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Post by mchlwilson on Aug 5, 2015 16:19:36 GMT -6
Hello everyone,
I wish to thank everyone who responded to me and I greatly appreciate the comments. I had not intended to disappear after posting but a family emergency arose and I've been dealing with that. Things are getting back to normal and I expect to be back on the board and participating.
Special thanks to Fred for his very detailed response. Everyone has given me much to think about.
Thanks!
MIchael
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Post by dave on Aug 7, 2015 13:38:32 GMT -6
Michael I am pleased your family emergency has passed and you will be posting again. I appreciate the insight you have and the ability to express your thoughts in an easy to read and grasp post. Regards Dave
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2015 7:08:20 GMT -6
Why did I Company put up so little resistance in the swale beyond the DR head cut? What orders had GAC given Keogh, to cause Keogh's battalion to be so widely dispersed and out of mutual support? Why did the entire Keogh battalion not evacuate northwards long before overrun? Was Keogh incompetent, constrained by GAC's orders, or independently reluctant to pull away from the rest of the regiment?
Why did E Company lose so many of their critical mounts, and end up butchered in Deep Ravine?
Why did F Company find itself fixed up on LSH, a position from which they could do little damage and actually did even less?
WO I company probed Ford B, got shot up. Korn of I troop's horse bolt through the village. Keogh takes a slug in the knee ( at RCOI testified scouts (Crows) said Keogh is wounded ) Comanche the horse has a wound at the position of Keogh's knee indicating Keogh was mounted when hit. Four men got across the River: Korn is one, Girard finds two bodies on the west bank (RCOI). Indians say horses milled in the river and bodies were swept down stream by the current. So you found the kill zone and now you retreat. Got to give the poor man credit for staying in the saddle and I understand smashed knees are very painful so I don't think he'll score very high on any aptitude tests just now.
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