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Post by welshofficer on Jan 16, 2015 12:01:32 GMT -6
Benteen Reno attacking big village in valley. I am moving right from creek bottom along bluffs. Bring your BN, McD. BN and trains. Follow me. GAC AZ,
I suspect that would be something along the lines of the best wording that could be expected from Cooke.
It conveys the essentials of:
(1) Reno was in a valley fight; (2) GAC (Yates/Keogh) had ascended the eastern bluffs and was moving northwards to attack; (3) Benteen was to avoid joining the valley fight and bring his battalion plus McDougall/Mathey up the bluffs and to GAC.
There are obvious problems caused by hindsight, as Montrose makes the critical point that we know that GAC kept advancing before he could see the hostile reactions to his every move. The reality was that the battle space between GAC's right wing and the left wing was filled by hostiles, and a more precise written order (that was complied with) might have led to a far worse overall result (e.g. "Follow me. Battle through if necessary. Detach no more than 1 company if Reno orders your support") or led to even more post-battle acrimony (if not complied with, on grounds of argued impossibility).
WO
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 16, 2015 12:25:41 GMT -6
Will's composition is brief, clear, and concise. It contains all of the essentials Benteen requires. There is no reason to do anything but give Benteen the tactical picture. and tell him what you want.QC,
Exactly, see my response to AZ.
Any more specific orders on that day would most likely have caused far more problems once GAC heads northwards after Ford B.
WO
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Post by quincannon on Jan 16, 2015 13:06:55 GMT -6
I don't think that there is any "most likely" about it. More specific "would have".
You will also take notice of the fact Will's version contained no intention, just Reno is fighting in the valley, get those people I want, come to me. The assumption Benteen then makes is that he will give me further instructions when I get there. All the components of a good fragmentary order are there.
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Post by chris on Jan 16, 2015 13:10:44 GMT -6
If you folks will suffer another question, when one Indian tribe attacked another, let's say Sioux v Crow: Did they plan it? Did they merely gather and attack randomly? c.
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 16, 2015 13:38:38 GMT -6
No, Chris, buttons ingested cause group think, assisted by ancient aliens. This was also what happened in WWI concerning C&C and movement of battleships.
Regards, Tom
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Post by Beth on Jan 16, 2015 14:36:15 GMT -6
Chris, I suspect it would depend if it was a random encounter or an assault on a village.
Guys for some reason I can not figure out BNs today. Translate please and let me be embarassed by the obvious.
Beth
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Post by chris on Jan 16, 2015 14:43:29 GMT -6
Beth, I should have been clearer. I was referring to an assault. They had to have some kind of planning, in my view.
I think the BN refers to battalion. Don't be embarrased by asking questions. I do it regularly and hasn't stopped me! Tom, on the other hand, well, nevermind..... Best, c.
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Post by Beth on Jan 16, 2015 15:04:44 GMT -6
Beth, I should have been clearer. I was referring to an assault. They had to have some kind of planning, in my view. I think the BN refers to battalion. Don't be embarrased by asking questions. I do it regularly and hasn't stopped me! Tom, on the other hand, well, nevermind..... Best, c. I would think they had to have some sort of planning so they could arrive at the correct village at the same time. Beyond the we are going to attack 'that' village at dawn tomorrow, I don't know. Thanks for the answer on BN. I knew it would be something obvious. Don't worry, I do and plan to continue to ask questions. Beth
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Post by quincannon on Jan 16, 2015 15:23:25 GMT -6
It is from the Italian Beth - battaglione. Two or more companies with someone in overall command. They are generally sub-elements of a regiment or brigade. For purposes of LBH - A temporary grouping of companies.
Were are overcomplicating a steel ball again folks - Look at command and control, C2, C4, C4ISR, C4ISREW, as just being a normal way to do business. Everyone, regardless of their state of development has a normal way to do business
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 16, 2015 15:24:50 GMT -6
Beth, don't trust Chris, he would mow your flowers!! Regards, Tom
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Post by chris on Jan 16, 2015 16:02:46 GMT -6
Tom, (insert snappy retort Number 4 here)
Never again will I make a comment about mowing, ever. I'll never live that down. Best, c.
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Post by Beth on Jan 16, 2015 16:24:51 GMT -6
Beth, don't trust Chris, he would mow your flowers!! Regards, Tom It's the lawn that needs mowing currently, he is welcome to it. However, touch my flowers, I break fingers.
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 16, 2015 18:55:14 GMT -6
I don't think that there is any "most likely" about it. More specific "would have". You will also take notice of the fact Will's version contained no intention, just Reno is fighting in the valley, get those people I want, come to me. The assumption Benteen then makes is that he will give me further instructions when I get there. All the components of a good fragmentary order are there. QC,
You must indulge our love of understatement east of the pond......
WO
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Post by montrose on Jan 16, 2015 19:17:28 GMT -6
If Bill Belichick wrote the note: We are moving on to village. Do your job.
PS DO your job.
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 17, 2015 4:05:02 GMT -6
Bill Belichick would have planned better in the first place. Not only would his offense been well executed and relentless, but he would have known when and where to defend. The note would probably not have been required. He probably would have first spied on the opposition(recon) before he ever attacked.
One thing you can be sure of the congress would never gotten any real answers out of him, during the winter and Grant would have sent him back on time with a pat on the back.
Regards, Tom
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