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Post by Colt45 on Jan 28, 2015 20:10:52 GMT -6
DC, some of what you say is true, but I am not inaccurate. I personally dealt with some of the people I described. I also saw what happened to those we could no longer commit. Until you have worn a badge and had to deal with mentally disturbed people first hand, I don't think you are in a position to tell me I am inaccurate about my firsthand experiences. I agree with you that there were abuses of the commitment process at times, and some institutions probably were modern day inquisition palaces, but like all endeavors, there will be bad apples in with the good. Your comments on the situation doesn't negate the fact that a lot of good had been done in the process, and that good was no longer an option to law enforcement.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 28, 2015 20:24:22 GMT -6
Too bad Colt I am passing through Amarillo on my way to San Antonio in April, and I thought we might meet for lunch at the Big Texan.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jan 28, 2015 20:43:18 GMT -6
Colt,
ALL of what I said is accurate, including the last sentence: "What you say is true, but it is far from accurate to leave it at that."
I don't claim what you presented from your past was untrue, but blaming it ALL on the ACLU alone is. Nobody today likes to admit it, given the obvious horrors, but it was very popular at the time. Then they all went to see One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 28, 2015 21:09:09 GMT -6
DC, that was one time the two party system worked well they reached over the isle an washed their hands of the situation.
Regards, Tom
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 29, 2015 6:02:26 GMT -6
Only with AZ's permission, I'd like to take the panoramic pic and include some points to orient a casual observer. That is, what is the precise direction (yes, I know it's West) from the lens forward and are there any identifiable features (features a visitor could identify)? Best, c. Go ahead Chris. When you leave Weir toward Reno-Benteen the elevation and that fence line are easy to pick out. Other than standing on top of 3411 there is not really a fixed direction for taking a panoramic shot. The camera is moved from left to right. That does cause distortion be it also shows the whole picture. It is not a single wide angle shot with one direction. In 2009 my son Scott gave me a trip to the battlefield. We flew and rented a car. When I saw what I later learned to be 3411 I had him stop the car because for me it seemed a natural to attempt a view mounted on a horse. Easy ride and you can cover your horse if necessary as you approach. We risked being caught we thought because we didn't know land status. I told Scott if we see a ranger that he could run for the car and I would run to Thompson's hideout and he could pick me up later. It's on preservation land so for $10/day or $100 lifetime you don't need and escape plan. I found it worth every penny and it supports a good cause. You can ride down Cedar Coulee, SSR, on top of Weir, the loaf , MTC, MTF, Butler's marker, Blummer, Nye-Cartwright, Luce, along the Custer Battlefield fence and see where the Indians may have come from behind cover and concealment, and end up on highway 212. You never know what camera shots you may get when you visit the battlefield. A late afternoon shot and some say they can see an image in the graveyard shot. Regards Steve
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 29, 2015 6:14:50 GMT -6
Steve, I have enlarge that image, and the pixel rate is really good, it stays clear and sharp, I could zoom right in at the red building that Fred eluded to and see if very clearly, so Chris will have a good base to work from.
Ian.
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Post by chris on Jan 29, 2015 6:34:58 GMT -6
Thanks Steve, I'll get busy with it! Best, c.
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Post by chris on Jan 29, 2015 7:32:32 GMT -6
Not sure if this is readable - changes? corrections?
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 29, 2015 7:43:23 GMT -6
Darn fine work, Chris and Steve.
Regards, Tom
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Post by Colt45 on Jan 29, 2015 8:06:41 GMT -6
Too bad Colt I am passing through Amarillo on my way to San Antonio in April, and I thought we might meet for lunch at the Big Texan. That would have been a good time at a great steakhouse. If you return by way of Dallas, let me know and we'll have a brew somewhere.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 29, 2015 8:14:57 GMT -6
Too bad Colt I am passing through Amarillo on my way to San Antonio in April, and I thought we might meet for lunch at the Big Texan. That would have been a good time at a great steakhouse. If you return by way of Dallas, let me know and we'll have a brew somewhere. My favorite place there and a 18 oz. ribeye.
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Post by Colt45 on Jan 29, 2015 8:24:17 GMT -6
Colt, ALL of what I said is accurate, including the last sentence: "What you say is true, but it is far from accurate to leave it at that". I don't claim what you presented from your past was untrue, but blaming it ALL on the ACLU alone is. Nobody today likes to admit it, given the obvious horrors, but it was very popular at the time. Then they all went to see One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. What I was speaking to was the results of government action as it affected real people, particularly veterans with PTSD or other mental problems, not to all the reasons the commitment process was eliminated. Of course there was more to it than the ACLU, but I didn't want to write a thesis on all the contributing factors, I wanted to point out the unintended consequences of government actions not well thought out. As Beth pointed out earlier, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. As I had to deal with these situations several times personally, I have a sore spot with this particular issue. I was a veteran of the Vietnam era. I didn't go to Vietnam, but I did serve with men who had been in Vietnam, and later as a police officer I encountered veterans with problems. It broke my heart when I lost any means of assisting them to get any meaningful help. The only option we had after the removal of the commitment process was to take them places like the Salvation Army, which could only provide very temporary sheltering, and no medical help whatsoever.
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Post by Colt45 on Jan 29, 2015 8:27:53 GMT -6
That would have been a good time at a great steakhouse. If you return by way of Dallas, let me know and we'll have a brew somewhere. My favorite place there and a 18 oz. ribeye. I always enjoyed eating there. On Christmas eve, the Big Texan invites all area law enforcement in for a free dinner. It gets pretty tough to get a seat on that evening, and you can be sure bad guys are no where to be found with all the uniforms that are present all through the evening hours. My high school graduating class held their 40th reunion there several years back and I attended mainly because it was held at the Big Texan. The food there is still as good as it ever was.
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 29, 2015 11:07:20 GMT -6
DC, some of what you say is true, but I am not inaccurate. I personally dealt with some of the people I described. I also saw what happened to those we could no longer commit. Until you have worn a badge and had to deal with mentally disturbed people first hand, I don't think you are in a position to tell me I am inaccurate about my firsthand experiences. I agree with you that there were abuses of the commitment process at times, and some institutions probably were modern day inquisition palaces, but like all endeavors, there will be bad apples in with the good. Your comments on the situation doesn't negate the fact that a lot of good had been done in the process, and that good was no longer an option to law enforcement. Colt,
We have had similar issues in the UK, with a movement away from Victorian confined institutions towards "care in the community". The problem gets transferred to the jails and hospitals/social services, but the political left parties are happy on civil liberties grounds and the political right parties are happy on fiscal grounds.
AZ,
Good photos.
WO
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Post by Colt45 on Jan 29, 2015 11:19:55 GMT -6
WO, but my point remains, do the affected persons get the care they need? You are correct in that the left is happy on the civil liberties issue and everyone is happy if the taxpayer no longer has to foot the bill. From my experiences I just feel like those who need the help wind up getting short-changed in the long run.
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