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Post by crzhrs on Jun 5, 2008 12:01:34 GMT -6
There were accounts of the remains of Fetterman's men being frozen in grostesque contortions and they could not be thawed out properly for burial in caskets.
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Post by bubbabod on Jun 5, 2008 20:39:43 GMT -6
I've read Brown's "The Fetterman Massacre." I think two other good reads, even though they're novels, and I've found many history buffs don't like novels, are Fred Chiaventone's "Moon Of Bitter Cold" and Terry C. Johnston's "Red Cloud's Revenge." While both are novels, both men did exhaustive research in their books, and I think it's well worth reading. I always find it interesting to see revisionists rewriting history, such as Carrington is the fall guy and Fetterman and Brown were suddenly Indian fighters, and the blame for Sand Creek now falls on Wynkoop.
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Post by Scout on Jun 5, 2008 21:09:42 GMT -6
Good points bubba. Have you noticed how accountability is slowly becoming a thing of the pass? It not only extends to people rewriting history but in everything in our culture. Just look around.
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Post by markland on Jun 6, 2008 8:44:30 GMT -6
I've read Brown's "The Fetterman Massacre." I think two other good reads, even though they're novels, and I've found many history buffs don't like novels, are Fred Chiaventone's "Moon Of Bitter Cold" and Terry C. Johnston's "Red Cloud's Revenge." While both are novels, both men did exhaustive research in their books, and I think it's well worth reading. I always find it interesting to see revisionists rewriting history, such as Carrington is the fall guy and Fetterman and Brown were suddenly Indian fighters, and the blame for Sand Creek now falls on Wynkoop. Frank, I agree with the above with the exception to your statement that Carrington is a "fall guy" only now due to revisionist historians. Since you know more about this than I, I suspect a typo. However for others, the facts are that Carrington was the fall-guy from the first. Cooke, the departmental commander, wished to relieve him from duty immediately and only deferred that action because of the scheduled Army reorganization which already had Carrington retaining command of the 18th Inf. while the 2d Battalion, 18th Inf. stationed at the Bozeman Trail forts became the 27th Inf. Carrington spent years trying to clear his name. I think that this was the genesis for Margaret Carrington's book Absaroka and its subsequent re-prints. Also, Carrington persisted and finally got the report of Gen. Augur as well as the Special Committee investigation published-I want to say 1885 but it has been a while so that year may be incorrect. I want to say it was during the 43d Congress though. Also, I recall that Grant had initially queried Sherman about whether a court-martial was justified. I'll repost my Ft. Phil Kearny transcripts and the other FPK info today or tomorrow. Be good, Billy
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Post by markland on Jul 7, 2008 9:15:30 GMT -6
Just finished this book and thought it good. As Elisabeth points out, the writing was somewhat awkward in spots and the editors at the U. of Nebraska Press really missed a glaring error by the author, but all in all, a fair book. By the way, the error is on p. 5-see if you can find it. I agree with Elisabeth that the book would have been more complete with reports and maps; however, to have the two Congressional documents, the Special Committee's reports as well as the COI preliminary investigation and various other reports would have made the book three times as thick. But, to rectify some of that, I promise I'll try to get my documentation reposted this week.
Errr, speaking of errors, did anyone else spot the error on Lt. Grummond's tombstone, p. 126?
Be good,
Billy
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Post by cefil on Jul 7, 2008 13:29:13 GMT -6
...the editors...really missed a glaring error... Don’t you love those “Huh?!?” moments when you’re reading? They can happen even in otherwise fine books, and they just leave you scratching your head…or, in my case, muttering to myself. Such a moment almost got me into trouble on a recent flight to Washington D.C. when my mutterings drew strange (if not fearful) looks from some of the other passengers. The cause was this little beauty from A Road We Do Not Know by Chiaventone: “…[Fetterman] was chafing over the dual indignity of being reduced to his permanent rank of captain and posted to Fort Phil Kearny, deep in the mountains of Dakota Territory and as remote a backwater as there was. The garrison was supposed to protect traffic along the Bozeman Trail—mostly emigrants headed for Oregon, but also a lot of prospectors hoping to hit it rich in the gold and silver deposits up toward Virginia City. The problem was that the trail passed right through the Black Hills, sacred ground to the Sioux.”
I counted this as a triple-huh… --FPK was “deep in the mountains…”? --The Bozeman Trail was used by “mostly emigrants headed for Oregon”?? --The Bozeman Trail “passed right through the Black Hills” I enjoyed Chiaventone’s book, but I must admit this paragraph really threw me for a loop. cefil
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Post by gary on Jul 9, 2008 8:20:36 GMT -6
I see that John H. Monnett has a new book on the Fetterman Massacre due out in October; Where a Hundred Soldiers Were Killed: The Struggle for the Powder River Country in 1866 and the Making of the Fetterman Myth.
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 9, 2008 8:39:01 GMT -6
He was the chap who did that very good book on Beecher's Island? Should be well worth a look, then. Thanks for the tip.
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Post by gary on Jul 9, 2008 9:32:19 GMT -6
I've read three of his books; Massacre at Cheyenne Hole: Lieutenant Austin Henley and the Sappa Creek Controversy, Tell Them We Are Going Home: The Odyssey of the Northern Cheyennes and The Battle of Beecher Island and the Indian War of 1867-1869. I recommend them all.
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Post by markland on Jul 11, 2008 14:34:35 GMT -6
...the editors...really missed a glaring error... Don’t you love those “Huh?!?” moments when you’re reading? They can happen even in otherwise fine books, and they just leave you scratching your head…or, in my case, muttering to myself. Such a moment almost got me into trouble on a recent flight to Washington D.C. when my mutterings drew strange (if not fearful) looks from some of the other passengers. The cause was this little beauty from A Road We Do Not Know by Chiaventone: “…[Fetterman] was chafing over the dual indignity of being reduced to his permanent rank of captain and posted to Fort Phil Kearny, deep in the mountains of Dakota Territory and as remote a backwater as there was. The garrison was supposed to protect traffic along the Bozeman Trail—mostly emigrants headed for Oregon, but also a lot of prospectors hoping to hit it rich in the gold and silver deposits up toward Virginia City. The problem was that the trail passed right through the Black Hills, sacred ground to the Sioux.”
I counted this as a triple-huh… --FPK was “deep in the mountains…”? --The Bozeman Trail was used by “mostly emigrants headed for Oregon”?? --The Bozeman Trail “passed right through the Black Hills” I enjoyed Chiaventone’s book, but I must admit this paragraph really threw me for a loop. cefil CEFIL, good ones. I had noticed the Black Hills & emigrants references when reading that book also. The deep in the mountains reference can be mitigated by understanding that Fred lives in Kansas, Weston specifically, so that anything higher than a prairie dog's mound is a mountain. To those who don't have Give Me Eighty Men, the error on p. 5 reads: "In 1863 John Bozeman discovered a more direct overland route, staking a trail from the Platte River road along the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains directly to the goldfields." And the reference to Grummond's tombstone is that the death date shown on the stone reads Dec. 22, 1866. Gary, thanks (I think) for giving me another reason to spend money on books. Billy
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 11, 2008 15:54:34 GMT -6
Billy, thanks for amplifying. I'd spotted the Grummond's tombstone thing, but had not -- even after you drew attention to it -- grasped the p. 5 error. Note to self (if I may steal from you): must get some decent maps of the relevant areas sometime soon ...
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Post by gary on Jul 11, 2008 16:28:08 GMT -6
Billy,
My pleasure!
Gary
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Post by ignimbrite on Jul 13, 2008 14:51:04 GMT -6
Markland writes - To those who don't have Give Me Eighty Men, the error on p. 5 reads: "In 1863 John Bozeman discovered a more direct overland route, staking a trail from the Platte River road along the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains directly to the goldfields."
Ok, after mulling this over for a day or so, I'll ask my stupid question. What do you see as wrong with that sentence?
Ruth
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Post by markland on Aug 15, 2008 7:17:41 GMT -6
Markland writes - To those who don't have Give Me Eighty Men, the error on p. 5 reads: "In 1863 John Bozeman discovered a more direct overland route, staking a trail from the Platte River road along the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains directly to the goldfields."Ok, after mulling this over for a day or so, I'll ask my stupid question. What do you see as wrong with that sentence? Ruth Ruth, sorry, I had missed your question. The Bozeman Trail went along the eastern side of the Big Horn Mountains, totally separate from the Rockies. By the way, for any interested in the testimony of the people interviewed by the Special Commission, I have re-added my Ft. Phil Kearny transcripts back to my site. The other stuff should be there also. The URL is: freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~familyinformationBilly
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Post by stevewilk on Aug 15, 2008 10:06:03 GMT -6
Billy, I'm no geologist but the Rocky Mountains are composed of several mountain ranges; to include the Big Horns, Absoroka, Beartooth, Wolf, Medicine Bow and others. The Rockies range for up to 400 miles in width so I don't see anything wrong with Chiaventone's statement. The Big Horns are indeed at the eastern base of the Rockies.
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