New book on Fetterman

[elisabeth]

Have just had an ad from Amazon for what sounds like an intriguing new book -- Give Me Eighty Men: Women and the Myth of the Fetterman Fight by Shannon D. Smith.

According to the blurb, it examines the role played by the two Mrs. Carringtons in blackening Fetterman's name so as to free Carrington of blame for the Fort Phil Kearney disaster. I quote:

'Although several of Fetterman's soldiers and fellow officers disagreed with the women's accounts, their chivalrous deference to women's moral authority during this age of Victorian sensibilities enabled Carrington's wives to present their story without challenge.Influenced by these early works, historians focused on Fetterman's arrogance and ineptitude as the sole cause of the tragedy. In "Give Me Eighty Men", Shannon D. Smith re-examines the works of the two Mrs. Carringtons in the context of contemporary evidence. No longer an arrogant firebrand, Fetterman emerges as an outstanding officer who respected the Plains Indians' superiority in numbers, weaponry, and battle skills. "Give Me Eighty Men" both challenges standard interpretations of this American myth and shows the powerful influence of female writers in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.'

Sounds jolly interesting in itself -- plus of course has obvious parallels with Libbie's defence of GAC. So I've ordered it (along with Eric's One Continuous Fight, naturally) and will report in due course ...

[BrokenSword]

Wasn't the second Mrs. Carrington the widow of Lieut. Grummond who was killed in the Fetterman fight? It would seem odd that she'd marry and provide cover for the man who was 'really' responsible for the death of her husband and father of her unborn child.

Maybe she/they were 'technical' advisers to Libbie for Boots and Saddles?

Very interesting, Lady E. I have never encountered anything that Carrington's wives had to say about any of it.

M

[gary]

I was about to make the same point that Brokensword has made. Surely, Grummond's widow would not have married and then sought to exculpate the man responsible for her husband's death.

[gary]

I will still probably buy the book, because there is not much on this subject.

(If I'm wrong on that point, please let me know).

[elisabeth]

This is just from memory, so I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that Grummond was (a) a bit of a nutcase and (b) a bigamist -- so the second Mrs. C. may have thought him no great loss!

[BrokenSword]

Thank you, Elisabeth -

I know next to nothing about Grummond. You're usually right (never far from it at worst) - women, 'hath no fury' and all that. Could be.

M

[Scout]

Carrington made his instructions to Fetterman known in front of the entire fort, "don't go over Lodge Trail Ridge!" Got it? Apparently not. Fetterman and Grummond together may have proven to be a fatal combination as both seemed convinced that white soldiers could lick any amount of wild injuns. So much for theories I guess. Fetterman had gotten himself nearly ambushed some two days before the fatal event. Why is every event in the old West a conspiracy?

Let's see...Mrs. Grummond, Mrs. Fetterman and Mrs. Custer had a secret meeting.....

[BrokenSword]

To the best of my memory, officers under Carrington's command were split into two camps of attitude, and around two personalities. As were the 7th's officers.

I have heard the idea that it was Grummond (commanding the calvary) who charged off after the Indians, leaving the infantry too far behind, and thereby contributed greatly to the Indian victory.

Eagerly waiting Elisabeth's evaluation of the book.

M

[crzhrs]

An excellent book on the Fetterman Massacre is THE FETTERMAN MASSACRE (formerly known as Fort Phil Kearney) by Dee Brown. An excellent book with great references. Highly recommended.

PS: Jim Bridger was a scout for the command. He told Carrington (paraphrase) "Your soldiers are crazy for chasing Indians like they were Rebs."

Apparently Bridger was seeing something about the officers that bothered him. They were going around like the Indians were easy pickins' and Bridger knew better. So it's quite possible Fetterman et al did consider the Indians unworthy adversaries and Bridger anticipating some type of disaster. The accounts of the Carringtons/Mrs. Grummond may ring true after all.

[gary]

I read the Dee Brown book years ago. Much better than Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. His book seems to be the only one that concentrates on this subject alone. It doesn't give too much information on the Indian side.

[markland]

May 14, 2008 1:31:29 GMT -6 @elisabeth said:

Have just had an ad from Amazon for what sounds like an intriguing new book -- Give Me Eighty Men: Women and the Myth of the Fetterman Fight by Shannon D. Smith.

According to the blurb, it examines the role played by the two Mrs. Carringtons in blackening Fetterman's name so as to free Carrington of blame for the Fort Phil Kearney disaster. I quote:

'Although several of Fetterman's soldiers and fellow officers disagreed with the women's accounts, their chivalrous deference to women's moral authority during this age of Victorian sensibilities enabled Carrington's wives to present their story without challenge.Influenced by these early works, historians focused on Fetterman's arrogance and ineptitude as the sole cause of the tragedy. In "Give Me Eighty Men", Shannon D. Smith re-examines the works of the two Mrs. Carringtons in the context of contemporary evidence. No longer an arrogant firebrand, Fetterman emerges as an outstanding officer who respected the Plains Indians' superiority in numbers, weaponry, and battle skills. "Give Me Eighty Men" both challenges standard interpretations of this American myth and shows the powerful influence of female writers in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.'

Sounds jolly interesting in itself -- plus of course has obvious parallels with Libbie's defence of GAC. So I've ordered it (along with Eric's One Continuous Fight, naturally) and will report in due course ...

Isn't Ms. Smith the one who wrote an article in the Montana Historical Society's magazine about Fetterman a year or two ago? Most of the people I know have refined their view of the Fetterman battle from the old "myth" to a more realistic view of who likely was responsible for stringing out the men on that ridge top. My view is that Grummond, likely with support from Brown, was primarily responsible for committing Fetterman to go beyond Lodge Trail. Admittedly, Fetterman and Carrington did not see eye-to-eye on the manner to wage the war but Carrington stated in his report (and I paraphrase) that Fetterman had come to the realization that the Indians fought differently than the Confederates. Whether that realization came after Bingham & Bowers were killed on 12/06/1866 or whether it was the ambush on Fetterman, Grummond and another officer at the wood lot sometime after Fetterman arrived, I don't know.

Elisabeth, yes Grummond was a bigamist. For some reason, I want to add that he was a serial bigamist but can't place where I came across that tidbit so don't take that portion as fact.

Scout, if Margaret Carrington met with the second Mrs. Carrington and Elizabeth Custer, it was via a seance. She had died after Carrington left the army for the teaching job in, I believe, Kentucky or Ohio.

Horse, get J. W. Vaughn's Indian Fights: New Facts on Seven Encounters as it has one of the more lucid accounts of the battle. As a matter of fact, I need to reread that chapter also.

Gary, I will repost my Ft. Phil Kearny stuff soon and let you know so that you can read the official inquiry testimony.

Be good,

Billy

[Scout]

Yes Billy, I know, it was called humor.

[gary]

Hi Billy

Is that your Rootsweb stuff that you are going to repost? I saw that it had disappeared after recommending it to a friend.

On the strength of the MHS article, would you recommend the book?

I had forgotten Indian Fights; one of the first really good Indian wars books that I read.

[markland]

May 15, 2008 10:35:13 GMT -6 gary said:

Hi Billy

Is that your Rootsweb stuff that you are going to repost? I saw that it had disappeared after recommending it to a friend.

On the strength of the MHS article, would you recommend the book?

I had forgotten Indian Fights; one of the first really good Indian wars books that I read.

Gary, yes, the Rootsweb stuff is what I am speaking of. Was your friend looking for something in particular? If so, I can forward a copy to you for delivery. Let me know via PM or email, whichever is most convenient to you.

You know, I never read the MHS article, I just heard a lot of discussion about it. Likely I will buy it as FPK is to me what the Custer-Cluster is to many of the folks on this board and there isn't that much written about it-unfortunately. There is one other book that I got through Friends of the Little Bighorn Battlefield, Promise: Bozeman's Trail to Destiny. Here is the link to Bob Reece's review:

friendslittlebighorn.com/promisebozemanstrail.htm

Be good, I want to catch the last of the ballgame, Royals lead the Tigers 7-3 in the 7th.

Billy

[cefil]

Thank you so much, Elisabeth, for the tip on this book--by an author from South Dakota (OAP)!

I ordered it immediately upon reading your post, and my copy arrived today. It looks fascinating:

Women controlled and manipulated the history of the Fetterman fight using the same tactics as Elizabeth Custer--except that instead of shielding Fetterman's reputation, they used him as a scapegoat. Unfortunately, Fetterman had no devoted woman to protect his honor; the batchelor officer was orphaned as a young child and had no siblings...

History continues to portray Fetterman's arrogance as the primary cause of the massacre of his troops, and his name is as infamous as "Custer." This characterization of Fetterman was derived from a flawed history and eventually matured into a legend that does not reflect reality. The story we know today was shaped by Victorian-era gender roles and was distorted by subsequent historians and authors as they embroidered it into a national myth.

The author believes that Tenodor Ten Eyck's daughter, Frances, got the ball rolling through a vigorous letter-writing campaign seeking to clear her father's name from a charge of cowardice.

The author was also intrigued by many contemporary descriptions of Fetterman as "...a warm and friendly man who played with Fessenden's infant daughter..." and "...a genial, affable officer..." These descriptions, she says, "controverted the commonly accepted account of a patently arrogant and violent egomaniac...Other than Carrington's reports months after Fetterman's death, every record or description of the man was positive."

And that's all in the Preface and Introduction...I can't wait to get to the rest of the book. It'll be an all-FPK weekend!

cefil