|
Post by Diane Merkel on Jan 11, 2007 13:13:52 GMT -6
Terry Bullis, Big Horn County Coroner, has received a request for permission to open the Unknown Soldier Crypt. The request includes the intent to display items in it in the museum at Garryowen that were from the original 1926 ceremony with Godfrey, White Bull, and Red Tomahawk. To quote my source, who personally spoke with the coroner: The U.S. Joint Personnel Accounting Command (POW/MIA agency), the US Cavalry Association, the 7th Cavalry Association, the U.S. Army Personnel Command, all will be notified of this action. Frankly, this indignity inflicted on the remains of an American Soldier for crass commercial gain is beyond belief. That it is contemplated by an individual currently under investigation for fraud and other violations only compounds the insult.
If the grave is disturbed to remove items for tourist display then the honored remains ought to be re-interred in the Custer National Cemetery along with the rest of his comrades. In fact, they should have been re-interred up there years ago.
|
|
bk
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by bk on Jul 2, 2007 17:13:41 GMT -6
I think the items put into the tomb would be of great historical interest and should by all means be made available to the general public. (And I don't really think the poor chap buried there will mind a hoot, tho I suppose he could be reinterred with his comrades up on the hill....) Whether the owner of the site is under investigation or not is frankly irrelevant. Thankfully, we live in a country where one is regarded innocent until proven guilty.
|
|
|
Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 2, 2007 17:46:05 GMT -6
Who said anything about the owner of the site being under investigation?
If we were to follow your reasoning, bloodyknife, we should dig everybody up. A lot of vets are buried in their uniforms, so I'm sure we could recover lots of stuff. (I hope you know I'm not serious.)
Abby Grace, I'm not positive what was buried in the crypt; perhaps bloodyknife could tell us. There was a burial ceremony for the unknown cavalryman in 1926, attended by Godfrey among others, so it's possible that some items may have been placed in the crypt. However, I doubt anyone thought of it in terms of being a time capsule. If he's to be moved to the National Cemetery, so be it, but the remains and anything with the body should be left alone.
|
|
|
Post by Montana Bab on Jul 2, 2007 23:50:12 GMT -6
Diane,
This doesn't make sense. Are you telling us that a coroner has the right to make a decision to open a burial plot and take items out of it, without making a legal request of the government officials responsible for the Battlefield or getting permission in the first place? Who made the original request, and by what authority was the request made? I can't believe that battlefield officials would even consider acknowledging such a rediculous request, particularly for a monetary purpose.
".......all will be notified of this action......." Does that mean that the decision has been made and is final ? This is an outrage! All hell should break loose!
Bloody Knife,
Your irreverance to the "poor chap" buried in that plot of acknowledgement of his sacrifice and service is appalling. There are a lot more important things in this world than "historical interest". NOT DEGRADING REMAINS OF OUR SOLDIERS (KNOWN OR UNKNOWN) IS ONE OF THEM! Montana Bab
|
|
|
Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 3, 2007 10:18:19 GMT -6
Montana,
Unfortunately, I have not heard another word about the request, which was apparently made by the owner of the museum in Garryowen. The remains are not on battlefield property; I believe they are on land owned by the museum. I'm not sure who has the final say. Perhaps it is the county coroner.
I'll let you know if I hear anything else about it. I share your indignation.
Diane
|
|
Abby Grace
New Member
"The nation that forgets its defenders, will itself be forgotten."
Posts: 38
|
Post by Abby Grace on Jul 3, 2007 11:48:08 GMT -6
For those of us who are not familiar with this Memorial - why is the Unknown Soldier tomb on private land in the first place? Why was he not interred in the National Cemetery? I'm not so sure that being part of a tourist attraction ie: gas station and "quickie mart" is the proper respectful place for such a person's remains. Maybe this would be a good time to place EVERYTHING in that grave site where it belongs...? I stopped at Garryowen a few weeks ago to refuel and also took a stroll into the souvenir shop there. I listened to an exchange between a tourist and the NA woman at the cash register. It was decidedly racist and not at all amusing. She then asked me why they call this "the land of the free".. I shrugged and she said "because the White Government has never paid us a dime for the land". I mention this because it seems to me that the "poor chap" is in hostile territory anyway and it would seem more appropriate if cloistered on the hill with his comrades.
|
|
|
Post by BrokenSword on Jul 3, 2007 11:56:27 GMT -6
Abby-
Just to be a little historically picky with your cashier friend. The government of the United States offered (in the 19th century) several million dollars reimbursement to the Sioux for the Black Hills. The offer was turned down and the Indians have never accepted the check.
M
|
|
|
Post by Tricia on Jul 3, 2007 12:07:30 GMT -6
Abby Grace--
Don't be too judgmental of our attitudes towards the government--Indians have a very complex love-hate relationship to it. And yes, there are those who simply can't get over the fact that we lost the war. I think economics might have a lot to do with this--we are a very poor people for various reasons.
And yes, Broken Sword is correct--money was offered for the Black Hills, but at a ridiculously low price. How was that kind of money supposed to last ad infinitum in an unregulated stock market?
Trish
|
|
bk
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by bk on Jul 3, 2007 12:22:52 GMT -6
Who said anything about the owner of the site being under investigation? If we were to follow your reasoning, bloodyknife, we should dig everybody up. A lot of vets are buried in their uniforms, so I'm sure we could recover lots of stuff. (I hope you know I'm not serious.) Abby Grace, I'm not positive what was buried in the crypt; perhaps bloodyknife could tell us. There was a burial ceremony for the unknown cavalryman in 1926, attended by Godfrey among others, so it's possible that some items may have been placed in the crypt. However, I doubt anyone thought of it in terms of being a time capsule. If he's to be moved to the National Cemetery, so be it, but the remains and anything with the body should be left alone. Diane, I guess you didnt read the quote from the 1st post in this thread made by your anonymous source: "That it is contemplated by an individual currently under investigation for fraud and other violations only compounds the insult."I don't know what is in the tomb, nor if it was meant to be a time capsule or not. As for the artifacts buried with the troopers, our current archaeologists are still recovering bones as well as relics and uniform parts from the original gravesites all over the battlefield. As you know, the relics are not returned to the grave, they are put into the museum collection. (nd we all know what Custer's men did to the artifacts they found at Indian burial platforms.)
|
|
|
Post by BrokenSword on Jul 3, 2007 12:23:06 GMT -6
Tricia-
Do you recall what the offered price was? I couldn't remember - seems like it was around $10,000,000? Was the form of payment in cash or in some other? You mentioned stocks. A flurry of questions, I know - but I'm curious, and not trying to put you on the spot.
My issue was with the statement 'never paid us a dime'. Fair market value or not - the statement was false.
M
P.S. Any publication date updates on your book? Sitting here tapping my finger impatiently.
|
|
Abby Grace
New Member
"The nation that forgets its defenders, will itself be forgotten."
Posts: 38
|
Post by Abby Grace on Jul 3, 2007 12:28:20 GMT -6
Tricia- Wasn't meaning to be judgemental so sorry if it sounded that way.... just relating an incident..I see both sides of all this, and all of us have to cringe a bit over the past. But, since there is still such anamosity between the two, perhaps our unknown should go to the National Cemetery in neutral territory.. and somehow I think it will be pointed out that it isn't really neutral.. So, OK, I'll shut my pie hole about all this, but I'm still interested in the rationale behind placing the Unknown Soldier tomb in such a commercial place.. be nice, O' wizards of the board.. I'm seeking insight and education, not a spanking!
|
|
bk
New Member
Posts: 13
|
Post by bk on Jul 3, 2007 12:28:54 GMT -6
Abby- Just to be a little historically picky with your cashier friend. The government of the United States offered (in the 19th century) several million dollars reimbursement to the Sioux for the Black Hills. The offer was turned down and the Indians have never accepted the check. M Actually, the NA woman at the cashier was Crow, not Sioux. The Crow got all the land they lost to the Sioux given back to them at the end of the Great Sioux War. They also get nearly all their housing built for free on the rez as well as free medical care, schooling, etc. There's an old Cheyenne Indian saying that goes, "The Cheyenne did the fighting, the Sioux got the glory, and the Crows got the land."
|
|
|
Post by BrokenSword on Jul 3, 2007 12:47:41 GMT -6
BloodyKnife-
Thank you for the claifications. The cobb webs grow thick in my brain.
M
|
|
|
Post by Tricia on Jul 3, 2007 13:20:54 GMT -6
Tricia- Do you recall what the offered price was? I couldn't remember - seems like it was around $10,000,000? Was the form of payment in cash or in some other? You mentioned stocks. A flurry of questions, I know - but I'm curious, and not trying to put you on the spot. My issue was with the statement 'never paid us a dime'. Fair market value or not - the statement was false. M P.S. Any publication date updates on your book? Sitting here tapping my finger impatiently. Broken One-- I believe the amount was between 7-10 million with the promise that the US government would ration them for life (or something like that) on the reserved lands. Granted, that was a fortune back then, but this is supposed to last in perpetuity? Also, if you break it down by acreage, I bet the money is ridiculously meagre. I wonder how much they'd offered--say if the land was owned by the Carnegies or other prestigeous families? As for the book, very exciting things are happening on the Custer front. That said, I wish the wheels of the publishing world could move a little faster. If I go with a regular publisher, it may take up to two years to finally see it on a shelf; if I choose to self-publish and hope Custer people have lots of friends, it'll take significantly less time. I'll probably have a better idea of what is actually going on in a couple of months. Trish
|
|
|
Post by BrokenSword on Jul 3, 2007 13:52:17 GMT -6
Tricia
"...with the promise that the US government would ration them for life.."
Yeah, the promises never seemed to work out so well.
"...I wonder how much they'd offered--say if the land was owned by the Carnegies or other prestigeous families?.."
Sounds pretty much the way 'Eminent Domain' works today.
"...Broken One--..."
Only badly warped.
Thank you Michael
|
|