Unknown Soldier Crypt ALERT!

[harpskiddie]

In Sixty-six Years In Custer's Shadow, Henry Weibert states that the remains were found in 1925, not 1926, by he and his father, well let him tell it:

"First, let's look at the matter of the unknown soldier. In the book [History of Custer Battlefield by Don Rickey Jr.], the location of the place where the body was found is off by three-fourths of a mike. This may not sound very important, but it does have some bearing on our understanding of Reno's battle in the valley. I shall quote from the above named book, page 82, 'The find was unearthed by a road construction crew about 3 miles from Custer Battlefield beside U.S. 87, at the location of the Garryowen Store and railway depot.' To begin with, it wasn't a road crew that found the unknown. It was two teams of horses, one belonging to my father and one belonging to the Indian Agency. Four people were present, including myself. We were putting in a small culvert for water. This is the main point of this mix-up. the 'official' location of where the soldier was found is incorrect. It wasn't beside U.S. 87 and it wasn't close to the Garryowen Store or the depot. It was straight east, three-fourths of a mile..................It is reported in the same paragraph that he was found several weeks prior to the fiftieth anniversary of the Battle, June 26, 1926. I hope to hell it was several weeks! He was found in the summer of 1925! Well, I guess that is close enough for government work. The other thing of interest is that no mention is made of the fact that the trooper's head was never found."

My understanding is that this unknown soldier was reinterred in the National Cemetery at those same anniversary celebrations, this being one of the highlights of the ceremonies.

Gordie,
you know the Foolkiller's coming - he's gettin' closer every day...............................................

[Scout]

Gordie...Isn't that the book where Weibert says Mitch Bouyer assassinated Custer in MTC on orders from Grant and Sherman....excuse me, I'm due back on planet earth.

[fred]

Sounds like PVT John J. McGinniss (G) or PVT John E. Armstrong (A) to me.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[shawn]

It doesnt mention anything about orders from Grant and Sherman.
Its on the "COULD THIS BE HOW CUSTER DIED?" summation thing at the end of the book. It does say that it is all circumstantial evidence (the Mitch Bouyer thing) just put in "proper order"

Shawn

[harpskiddie]

Scout:

Shawn is correct. Personally, the Mitch Bouyer thing is something I have more than a little trouble with; but Weibert was not the first one to posit that theory - I believe that it first surfaced in the mid 50s.

One of my main stumbling blocks with Weibert is that he places Custer's route of advance down Deep Ravine [where Bouyer supposedly shot him, and was in turn shot by troops], but I have never seen any evidence [let alone convincing evidence] of any action in Deep Ravine, despite all the stories surrounding that location.

Gordie,
on the right side of the tracks she was born and raised, in a great big old house full of butlers and maids.....................................................

[TopKick1833]

I watched Henry Weibert's film again last night in hopes of getting some answers. Here is what Mr. Weibert claims in the video: Henry and his father found the unknown soldier in 1925 while pulling a ditch. They contacted the battlefield who sent down a staff that completed exhuming the remains which included uniform buttons and pieces of blue cloth. The battlefield held onto the remains for a year and then interred them and the uniform artifacts in the Tomb of the Unknown in Garry Owen. According to Mr. Weibert, as of 1992, the remains are still buried in the tomb.

Henry also stated that a skull was never found. Fred highlighted that this could be PVT John J. McGinniss (G) or PVT John E. Armstrong (A). The only other documented body missing a skull that I know of is Lt. James Porter (I). His head was supposedly found in the Indian Village. No idea if his remains were recovered or not.

New question to chew on, is it possible that the remains in the tomb are that of PVT John J. McGinniss (G), PVT John E. Armstrong (A), or Lt. James Porter (I)?

[Scout]

Maybe the skull is in a museum just like Harrington's. People were hauling stuff off very early on.

I think I was thinking of the "The Scout who Killed Custer" by McVey. He's the one, I think, who said Bouyer killed Custer in MTC on orders from Washington. I haven't seen the Weibert film yet. His book has gotten quite pricey from what I've seen listed online. Is it still available?

[Scout]

Meant to say....Is the video still available?

[crzhrs]

Another book: WHERE WAS CUSTER by Harry Crumbs also states Boyer killed Custer in retaliation for his mistreatment of Meotsi. Crumbs states Boyer called a peace meeting between the Sioux & Crow. Some Crow agreed to it that's why not many went as scouts for Custer.

Boyer also supposedly fired a signal shot notifying the Sioux of Custer's approach!

[TopKick1833]

Weibert goes into a bit of detail on his theory about Bouyer killing Custer. It evolves out of Custer being competition for Grant in the Presidential election. He also mentions the signal shots by Bouyer into the Indian encampment to warn them. He even talks about Bouyer disappearing for a brief time and Varnum being unable to locate him for two hours. Upon his return he is dressed in a new leather jacket that he claims he "found". Weibert believes the Indians gave it to him so he would be easily recognizable in the upcoming fight so as to not be killed by the Indians.

Weibert's bottom line, Bouyer shoots Custer in the ravine (as ordered by Washington) during the opening of the battle. Troopers retaliate and kill Bouyer before he can make his escape. Custer's body is recovered and kept with the command, hence finding it on Last Stand Hill. Weibert also speaks about Bouyer's skull being recovered exactley where the Custer shooting incident took place.

Not sure if his video is still on the market. I purchased it back in 2001 I think?

R/S

[harpskiddie]

Topkick:

There is no record of how many bodies were buried/reburied/removed from Reno's positions in the valley. The names of the dead are really determined from who never showed up after the night of 26 June for roll call and from the rosters/returns made on 30 June. Only anecdotal evidence exists for the location of identified bodies [which were in the minority], so it is problematical to try to attach a missing skull to a particular set of remains [no pun intended].

Remains, including a lone skull, have been found long after 1925, and probably still could be if a determined effort were made to search the valley. The same likely holds true for the Custer field as well, albeit to a lesser degree.

Gordie,
it was not so long ago - maybe just a year or so - when I was lonely, and went lookin'.............

[Melani]

I should think it would be unlikely to be Porter if the remains were found in the valley. And wasn't Bouyer noted for a calfskin vest with the hair on? Oh, and wasn't he already wounded when he sent Curley off? (Not sure about that, may be confused.)

[Melani]

abbygrace said:

Here's another question I hope someone can answer- Is the guy who owns the Museum at Garryowen the same person who ran for Sheriff in that area a few years ago?

Yup.

www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/06/30/news/local/30-battlefield.txt

[Melani]

Just found this in the May 2002 issue of Greasy Grass:

"A month before the June (1926) observance, a fortuitous discovery provided an ideal focal point for the ceremony Godfrey envisioned. A road crew working along an irrigation ditch in the lane east of Garryowen--that is, along what had been Reno's line of retreat--uncovered a nearly complete set of human skeletal remains...The Custer Memorial Association quickly seized upon the idea of staging a military funeral with full honors for this unknown soldier. The remains were to be entombed beneath a special monument in the battlefield's national cemetery...representatives from both races were to smoke a peace pipe and together place a tomahawk in a niche in the monument's base. The proposed 30-foot-high monument, placed near the flagpole, would be dedicated on June 25.

"Superintendent Wessinger initially took charge of the soldier's remains, expecting to inter them in the national cemetery. In an obvious publicity ploy, however, the committee took possession and had them removed to Billings. There they lay in state in a flag-draped casket for several days at the Billings Commercial Club. Meantime, days passed, but still no formal approval came from Washington for the proposed monument. Finally, as a stopgap measure, Mr. and Mrs. A.G. Carter, merchants of nearby Garryowen, donated a small plot of land adjacent to their store and allowed the committee to build a special granite crypt for Reno's unknown trooper. Just why the skeleton was buried there, rather than in the nearby national cemetery, even without the proposed monument, remains unclear. Superintendent Wessinger later pleaded ignorance in the matter, maintaining in a letter to his superiors that he thought the remains were to be buried at the cemetery. Wessinger then noted he was, 'surprised when the 7th Cav. escorted the remains to Garryowen, but since Col. Fitzhugh Lee and Genl. Godfrey were present, I have nothing more to say.' Wessinger, a civilian employee of the army quartermaster department, obviously considered himself outranked. The fact that the Custer battlefield Highway passed directly by the chosen site may have influenced the committee's decision. The stone crypt of the unknown soldier, removed from the path of Interstate 90 in the late 1960s, remains beside the frontage road at Garryowen to this day."

"...Signifying an end to hostilities between the two races, the general (Godfrey) placed (White Bull's tomahawk) in the crypt with the soldier's remains. As he did so, members of the memorial committee also came forward to deposit photographs of Custer and other former officers of the 7th, a regimental crest, copies of newspapers carrying the semi-centennial story, battlefield maps, brochures, and other mementos.

"...The observance of 1926 firmly established Custer Battlefield as one of Montana's premier tourist attractions, one that continues to attract hundreds of thousands of visitors from around the world every year."

--"Burying the Hatchet," by Douglas C. McChristian, p. 9-16.

[Scout]

Good stuff Melani...Supt. (Eugene) Wessinger was known for his ability in helping establish the Custer Battlefield as a tourist friendly place. Old 'Wes would send park employees over to Fort Custer to fill up buckets of shells from the firing range, bring them back and scatter them about the battlefield for tourist to discover. Sort of like the Johnny Appleseed of the LBH. He reportedly did this for a number of years. This made the LBH tourists very happy thinking they had actual relics of the fight but it continues to confuse the hell out of some 'experts.'

Very few books on the history of the park mention Wessinger's noble gesture toward tourists and generally it is swept under the carpet by the 'experts.' Kinda like the crazy uncle kept stashed in the closet.

The great thing about the Custer Battlefield is the number of eccentric/eclectic personalities of the early Park Supts. Luce is another great one.

I hardly think Bouyer was wounded when Curley left the scene although I guess it would depend on which version Curley was giving.