Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 20, 2006 15:37:42 GMT -6
Also, the badge at the Monroe Museum has the inverted sabers at the top. One can determine this because if you were to turn the medal upside down the words "Tuebor" and "Custer" would be upside down. In the video I have of this medal it appears that the clasp is attached to the backside of the sabers "at the top". I get the feeling that Custer had a few badges of his own design, because I have a copy of yet another letter to Libbie, from one of the Generals men, (B, W. Munson, M. D. Surgeon General) that describes another version of a Custer medal. I found it in some microfilm of "letters to Libbie". Dr. Munson describes the Medals as having a ribbon, "some red, some blue and some white", "pendant" from an eagles talons holding crossed sabers, with spurred boots at the bottom and the number "3" in the middle of all. He goes on to say that it was completely different from the "Custer Badge". What do you think? Gary
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 20, 2006 22:13:35 GMT -6
I think I have an enormous amount of respect for Jas. Watson.
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 5:27:45 GMT -6
I second that emotion!!!
Gary
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 6:06:40 GMT -6
I am copying this reply from another thread "Break-in at Libbies N.Y. Apt"
Transcribed from the actual newspaper article by member "RABBLE"
It makes no mention of the watch that was stolen from Libbies apartment as being Tom Custer's. It simply states, it was a watch.
I know!_____ It still doesn't prove anything, but it sure makes one wonder!
Does anyone know of an article that does identify the watch as Tom's?
Thanks.......... Gary
NY Times September 9 1884.
"Up to last night no clue had been discovered as to who stole a purse and watch from Mrs. George A. Custer’s apartments, in the Stuyvesant Flats, at Third Avenue and Eighteenth Street, during the fire on Sunday morning. The police said that they had not been given notice of the theft, except through the newspaper reports and consequently were not working on the case, and had no theory concerning it.
Mrs. Custer said she was sorry that the implication had been conveyed by the printed accounts of the fire that the articles had been stolen by firemen. She herself had never thought of accusing the firemen of the theft. When her sister, herself, and maid ran out of the house, immediately after the discovery of the fire, they were met on the sidewalk by a man of suspicious appearance who seemed to be somewhat intoxicated, though he may have only been feigning. In their fright they left both the door of their own apartment and that of the main entrance open. Her maid saw the man referred to enter the flat before the arrival of the police and the firemen, and she was inclined to think that he was the thief.
A woman, who, the police said, was a sneak thief, was discovered in Agent McCann’s apartment in the adjoining building, where the lady refugees from the burning building were temporarily assembled on the invitation of Mr. McCann. Some of the ladies had caught up valuables in their flight and still held them in their hands. The woman referred to had just offered to relieve one of the ladies of the articles she held in her hands when a policeman entered and hustled her out after making her restore the articles the their owner. After the police arrived they kept a very strict watch on the premises, and refused to allow anybody to enter, even occupants of the apartments, until the fire was entirely extinguished. The firemen attributed the theft to sneak thieves, of whom they say there is an organized gang that makes business (?) of getting to fires before the arrival of the firemen and the police.
Hugh Bonner, Acting Chief of the Fire Department, said yesterday that he could not order any investigation into the theft of a watch and a purse in the apartments of General George A. Custer’s widow, at the Stuyvesant Flats, at the time of the fire Sunday morning. At the same time he would be alert to discover and punish any thief in the department, and the police would receive all possible aid from him if they required any. But he could not help characterizing as infamous the inference attempted to be drawn from the fact that certain engine companies which were at the Stuyvesant flats fire on Sunday, were also at the St. George’s flats fire in April, when much property was stolen. Chief Bonner added that he did not believe that the man who robbed Mrs. Custer’s apartments was a member of the Fire Department."
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 21, 2006 6:23:25 GMT -6
Oh for God's sake, Gary! This is no longer even grasping at straws, but at will- o'- the-wisps!
Frost cites The Monroe Democrat, September 11, 1884 as his reference for it being Tom's watch, given to Maggie shortly before the last campaign, which was stolen during the fire incident.
One other thought for you: Just suppose your flight of fancy was true - that it was GAC's watch which was stolen in 1884 rather than Tom's, and that you have that very watch. That would mean you'd bought stolen property, which prroperly would belong to the heirs of Maggie Custer Calhoun Maugham...............
Give me strength! GAC
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 6:56:29 GMT -6
You mention The Monroe Democrat, September 11, 1884 as Frost's reference.
I have not seen this reference before. Where can it be found. I do not find it in Frost's book, "General Custer's Libbie". It is the only account that I have seen in any book.
Be nice now! Gary
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 7:03:33 GMT -6
There must be a lot of people interested in this subject, have you noticed how many hit's this thread has had? Some of you that are following this thread, I know, have further information, I encourage you to jump in! Send me a personnal memo if you prefer!
Gary
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 7:08:47 GMT -6
OK! I just found the ref. number in L. Frost's book, "General Custer's Libbie" The Ref. #30 is not easily seen in my copy.
Sorry bout that!
Gary
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 8:08:21 GMT -6
I've been re-reading some of the posts and noticed "way back" the request for "where did I get the watch". This is where I purchased the watch back in 1994. Paul must have a 1,000 or more "collectable" watches and is recognized as one of the foremost collectors in the country. Just copy this address into the address bar on your browser. www.pmtime.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=ABOUT&Store_Code=pmtimePaul Zuercher, the owner, told me that he had bought a Custer collection from a dealer in Colorado in the late 60's, possibly, early 70's. He does a lot of business so he could not be sure. He tells me that this person is not around anymore. That's pretty much all he would say! Let me know if you can add to this!
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Post by markland on Apr 21, 2006 8:23:19 GMT -6
Can anyone good with a graphic editing program substitue that damned watch for the jeep? Billy P.S. For anyone like myself who loves Bill Mauldin's Willie and Joe cartoons, here are a bunch of them: ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/02/nov02/mauldin/index.html
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 21, 2006 8:28:48 GMT -6
Billy, not the JEEP! ;D ;D ;D (We have a special edition Willly.)
It's unfortunate (appalling, really) that a collector/dealer did not keep detailed records about his acquisitions. With that sketchy information, I'm afraid that Gary will never establish the provenance of that watch. Without provenance, I would think it's worth whatever any other watch of its period in similar condition would be worth with, perhaps, a little thrown in for its novelty value.
To collectors of anything, including inherited items: Please record all of the details surrounding the acquisition of your items. Even if you just jot notes down on index cards and throw them in a box, do it. You may think you will always remember the story of your piece, but a time will come when you will wish you had recorded where you got it, how much you paid for it, any family stories attached to it, etc.
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 21, 2006 8:47:51 GMT -6
Where can I get one of those jeeps? Just kidding,,,,Just kidding,,,,, I've had enough too!
Thanks to all, for their help! Gary
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 21, 2006 8:48:43 GMT -6
Sorry - I couldn't resist! You're a bad influence on me Billy! ;D Ciao, GAC
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Post by markland on Apr 21, 2006 8:50:18 GMT -6
I am literally falling off the chair laughing at that GAC!
Great work!!!
Billy
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 21, 2006 9:17:26 GMT -6
You're both brilliant. I'm falling off my chair too!
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