Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 18, 2006 15:50:02 GMT -6
Thanks for the input! I would still like to have you look the watch over and see what you think! Quite honestly, I do not think one will ever be able to prove this piece authentic or not! When I bought it, I figured it to be a fake! But as I got into it, it seemed that "possibly" it was the real thing. Interestingly, the person that I purchased the watch from has offered me 3 times what I paid for it. But, I have to say it has been worth more than that, just for the fun of trying to figure it out!!!! But, I'm not giving up yet!!!!
Thanks again,,,,,,,,,,,,, Gary
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 19, 2006 0:11:59 GMT -6
Years ago, my husband was going to give a talk for a local genealogical society about the battle. An older gentleman walked in and announced to me that his great grandfather was Custer's Sergeant Major. I pulled my husband over and exclaimed, "Chuck, this gentleman's great grandfather was Custer's Sergeant Major!" I could immediately tell from Chuck's expression that something was very wrong. After his talk, Chuck -- who is a very kind and gentle man -- spent a long time with the gentleman, listening to the story his grandfather had told him about his great grandfather's experience at LBH and gently explaining all of the things that were wrong with the story. At the end, the man, almost in tears, said "My grandfather wouldn't lie to me!" It was a very sad moment, and I will never forget the pain expressed in that man's voice.
Gary, please don't feel that we are piling on, but we want the truth as much as you do. It is never fun to disappoint someone, but we have to be honest in our opinions. I frequently get requests similar to yours, asking that we assist someone in researching an artifact, and I never turn them away. This group has always given generously of their time and expertise and, for that, I am extremely grateful.
Diane
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 5:13:22 GMT -6
Thanks! I too, would like to "prove or disprove" the authenticity of this watch! To date, all other watches that I have found (3) with the same inscription have been proven to be not authentic. There must be something out there that will solve the mystery of my watch! One way or the other!!! Please post the pictures that I have sent to you of General Sheridans, badge / flag, as I have found them in the book "PRESIDENTS, SOLDIERS, STATESMEN". (I'm not sure if one is a flag or not) The pictures need to include at least part of the print of each page so that one can see they are shown with saber tips down. If we should come up with anything proving that Sheridan or Custer had anything designed with the tips down it would go a long toward giving this watch credence. It still would not prove anything but one would sure have to wonder how the sabers ended up on this watch as they are.
Thanks for all your time and effort with this project! Gary
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Post by Tricia on Apr 19, 2006 10:43:37 GMT -6
Gary or Diane--
I wanted to know if the circular emblem near the bottom of the back of the watch (whew, too many prepositions!) is the "seeing eye." I can't quite make it out and before I express any more ideas regarding the timepiece, I want to verify what I am seeing.
Thanks in advance! LMC
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 19, 2006 11:51:45 GMT -6
Here's another even cruder example of a 'Custer watch': It was auctioned on 6/19/05 by James & Horan Auctions of Goffstown New Hampshire, and sold for $275. To give the auctioneers their due, their description conveys their serious misgivings about the inscription, saying the watch bears a "suspicious machined cuvette engraving 'George Armstrong Custer Xmas 1863' now highlighted in blue, with chain and key." Caveat emptor indeed! Check out more pictures of this 'treasure' (Lot 466) at: www.jones-horan.com/0502/0502ks.htm(The site also has examples and prices of 'Elgin' pocket watches similar to the 'Custer' one which started this thread, and the prices they realised at auction. It's clear that it's no problem for the unscrupulous to get hold of a period pocket watch and then dream up an inscription to add to it). Ciao, GAC
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 12:49:35 GMT -6
As I have said, I know of 3 other watches that are "not authentic" I believe one of the well known Custer re-enactors has one! Can't remember his name. Gary
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Post by Tricia on Apr 19, 2006 13:37:58 GMT -6
I'm guessing that was Errol Flynn, eh? Come on, some of us are seriously trying to work this problem and do some research. I asked you a question earlier in this thread regarding the "seeing eye" engraving, its proportionality, and its location on the watchcase ... or am I stuck on the place where the key is inserted to wind the mechanism?
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 14:15:09 GMT -6
This'll get you goin!!!! BE NICE!!!!!! I've been going back through my records and have found a video we took at the Monroe, County, Michigan, Historical Museum. I had forgotten all about it. It was about 1994. They wanted to help with our watch research all that they could and went to their archives and pulled out a picture of a medal that Custer had designed during the Civil War. It is probably, one that was not authorized by the military, but Custer wanted it so he could present it to his enlisted men when he felt they deserved a reward. The Maltese Cross Medal he had designed "I think" was for officers only. I also have a letter that was written to Libbie by one of Custer's men that talks of a medal that Custer had made in the winter of 1864, & 65, for this purpose. "It is not this medal", but, it does give credence to Custer doing this sort of thing. And, yep, you guessed it, the saber tips on the Custer designed medal (in the picture) were pointing down! Hey guy's, I don't make this stuff up. I have the video and letter! The museum has the picture. You have to admit, I'm coming up with pictures in "old" books and museum's, the marble statue with the inverted swords and a watch with inverted sabers, and no one has been abler to prove it as fake yet. I know no one has to prove it as fake, but as long as no one does, we'll always wonder! Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,, Gary
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 19, 2006 14:16:39 GMT -6
Gary requested that I post these images:
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 19, 2006 14:31:44 GMT -6
This'll get you goin!!!! BE NICE!!!!!! I've been going back through my records and have found a video we took at the Monroe, County, Michigan, Historical Museum. I had forgotten all about it. It was about 1994. They wanted to help with our watch research all that they could and went to their archives and pulled out a picture of a medal that Custer had designed during the Civil War. It is probably, one that was not authorized by the military, but Custer wanted it so he could present it to his enlisted men when he felt they deserved a reward. Gary, I hate to burst your bubble, but that Custer medal is well known. In fact, we have a replica of it around here someplace. It has nothing to do with the pocket watch unless now, instead of insinuating that your pocket watch was actually Tom's watch which was stolen from Libbie, you now want to believe that Custer had the pocket watch engraved to himself. Diane
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Post by Tricia on Apr 19, 2006 14:47:26 GMT -6
Gary--
The medal you are referring to is also examined in detail on the "Was Custer a Mason?" thread; I had brought it up so you wouldn't have to worry about any possible significance to your timepiece. The medallion was crafted by Tiffany's and emblazoned with the Latin word tuebor, which means something like "I will protect." GAC is seen wearing the medal in his most famous portrait--and Libbie sported one from time to time.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Tricia on Apr 19, 2006 14:54:10 GMT -6
Speaking of Sheridan ... didn't his personal standard change when he took effective control of the Shenandoah campaign? I saw it listed as such, but have seen no imagery ...
Regards, LMC
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 15:03:18 GMT -6
You lost me on this one! What are you wanting to know? Gary I'm guessing that was Errol Flynn, eh? Come on, some of us are seriously trying to work this problem and do some research. I asked you a question earlier in this thread regarding the "seeing eye" engraving, its proportionality, and its location on the watchcase ... or am I stuck on the place where the key is inserted to wind the mechanism? Regards, Leyton McLean
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 15:11:47 GMT -6
No, No, The medal I speak of now, has not come up before as far as I know! Please keep in mind you guy's know a whole lot more about Custer than I do! Thanks.....Gary Gary-- The medal you are referring to is also examined in detail on the "Was Custer a Mason?" thread; I had brought it up so you wouldn't have to worry about any possible significance to your timepiece. The medallion was crafted by Tiffany's and emblazoned with the Latin word tuebor, which means something like "I will protect." GAC is seen wearing the medal in his most famous portrait--and Libbie sported one from time to time. Regards, Leyton McLean
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Gary
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2006 15:20:40 GMT -6
Don't know where your coming from on this one! Where do you get, I'm insenuating the watch was Tom's or Custer had it made for himself? Could you post a picture of the medal you have a copy of. What I have is on video and I do not know how to tranfer that to this medium. Thanks,,,,,,, Gary This'll get you goin!!!! BE NICE!!!!!! I've been going back through my records and have found a video we took at the Monroe, County, Michigan, Historical Museum. I had forgotten all about it. It was about 1994. They wanted to help with our watch research all that they could and went to their archives and pulled out a picture of a medal that Custer had designed during the Civil War. It is probably, one that was not authorized by the military, but Custer wanted it so he could present it to his enlisted men when he felt they deserved a reward. Gary, I hate to burst your bubble, but that Custer medal is well known. In fact, we have a replica of it around here someplace. It has nothing to do with the pocket watch unless now, instead of insinuating that your pocket watch was actually Tom's watch which was stolen from Libbie, you now want to believe that Custer had the pocket watch engraved to himself. Diane
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