What would Benteen have done?

[Dark Cloud]

There is no cover for the soldiers, no room for the animals. I've been there. You like using military jargon. None of the officers there thought Weir was a good spot. Not one. I've not read that any soldier thinks Weir the better spot than Reno Hill since. If you have, who?

Nobody complained of the command's later location in comparison. Kuhlman wanted to damn Benteen, and imagined Custer dying looking at Benteen's men waving from on high. Elevating your men without cover makes them easier targets.

Again, people damn Reno and Benteen for not doing what Custer did: taking the high ground with no cover.

[mcaryf]

Hi DC

I think you need to remember that Benteen and Reno had over 300 men. You can defend a fair sized position with that number not just a hilltop.

Do you have access to Kuhlman's book? He was very familiar with the ground as it was and has included a good map that you could do well to examine.

Regards

Mike

[crzhrs]

Wild:

See THE CUSTER MYTH about the Benteen letter and his "friend" submitting it to the newspaper.

True, Benteen did not refute that he wrote the letter, but he may not have intended it to be published in a newspaper.

However, Benteen was very shrewd and it may have been a "roundabout" way of condemning Custer via the public, rather than through the military chain. Remember he thought it was very important to keep the "come quick" note for "later use."

[crzhrs]

I think the term "stage right" was made famous by that cartoon cat . . . was it Krazy Cat? who used it as a term of leaving the stage of a broadway play.

I don't think it was meant as anything about what direction Benteen was going in.

[crzhrs]

The High Ground may be the best spot for a defensive position depending on the lay of the terrain. Reno hill had some depressions in it which provided some cover and I believe the approach was very steep in places preventing warriors from easy approach.

However, Custer Ridge did not have that luxury, was open and exposed to enemy fire. That's probably why Custer's final position was just below the high point which gave them a slightly better defensive position rather than on top sticking out like bull's eyes.

[crzhrs]

I believe Benteen stated that Reno Hill was a far better position for a defensive stand rather than Weir Point. That could also be because hundreds of warriors were fast approaching and the command was strung out from Reno Hill to Weir Point.

Anyway Reno Hill turned out to be a good defensive position with depressions for hunkering down and steep slopes to keep warriors at bay. Still warriors who were good shots took out a number of soldiers from distance points, possible from elevated positions.

So while Reno Hill was not the greatest spot for a stand . . . it was far better than Weir Point and superior place compared to Custer's fight.

[Dark Cloud]

"I think you need to remember that Benteen and Reno had over 300 men. You can defend a fair sized position with that number not just a hilltop." They could have had twice that number on Weir Point and lost them all. They is no cover, and plenty for the besiegers around it.

"Do you have access to Kuhlman's book? He was very familiar with the ground as it was and has included a good map that you could do well to examine." It's an old book, one of the first I read, but you don't get it. No cover = dead defenders.

Again, find one (1) soldier who thinks it a mistake to take Reno Hill over Weir Point. There are none. Zero. A clue, surely, and one that would have been brought up at the RCOI if there was validity to it. Enthusiastic amateurs, like Kuhlman, have limitations. And, often, agendas to install.

[mcaryf]

Hi DC

Please look at the ground round Weir again as it was before the road was built. It is not just an isolated high point. There are two parallel ridge lines. That means you have protection from your own ridge whilst facing out and the parallel one protects you from behind. Wallace said at RCOI that Indians could infiltrate the valley between them but in practice that would have been fairly suicidal as the Indians would have been in a cross fire. The reason why it was no good for defence was that you could not get to water as the river runs away from the ridge line here whilst it comes close at Reno.

Now if, for example, Custer had taken a position on Luce opposite to Weir then MTC is dominated on both sides by cavalry on high ground. If there had been water in MTC then that would have made Weir a more tenable option. In any event Custer was not on Luce so the question did not arise and the cavalry had to go back to Reno Hill.

Regards

Mike

[Dark Cloud]

I've been there several times. I've seen the photos. Find an officer or soldier that says they should have stayed at Weir Point. One. The water issue is notional, and barely better at Reno Hill. There is nowhere near enough room for the animals at Weir Point, the men would be exposed to many gun sights when they themselves got a view to shoot at those with cover surrounding them below.

[crzhrs]

From distant memory of being at LBH . . . Weir point has been dissected by a road. The point doesn't look like it could have held the entire Reno/Benteen command and I think sticks out like a sore thumb. It may have been a rather dubious spot for a defense.

Benteen was apparently right about going back to Reno Hill.

[wild]

crzshrs
See THE CUSTER MYTH about the Benteen letter and his "friend" submitting it to the newspaper
If it had been a British regiment Benteen's career would have ended there and then.He would have been boycotted by all officers of the regiment and would have had to resign.

[wild]

Weir point was not without some defensive potential.Reno's defence perimeter measured over 1000 yards.It would have been possible to occupy the ajoining ridges anchoring it on Weir point.The animals would have been sheltered in the valley with plenty of cover for the troops on the reverse slopes of the ridges.
The major disadvantage was the nearness of other ridges and bluffs allowing the Indians to approch within 200 yards.
Also the Village was very close and the entire population would have had a chance to have a go.

[Realbird]

Az, "exit stage right" would be the relative sanctuary of Reno's bluff.

There (and he did) he would find succor with his fellow soldiers. If nothing else, seemingly trapped in a very hostile environment, there was certainly safety in numbers.

Benteen's choice, which he chose, was apparently better than driving towards the flats on the eastern shore of the Little Big Horn.

[markland]

wild said:

crzshrs
See THE CUSTER MYTH about the Benteen letter and his "friend" submitting it to the newspaper
If it had been a British regiment Benteen's career would have ended there and then.He would have been boycotted by all officers of the regiment and would have had to resign.

And if a bullfrog had wings, it wouldn't bump its butt when it landed.

[AZ Ranger]

Az, "exit stage right" would be the relative sanctuary of Reno's bluff.

Realbird You keep saying you agree with Wild but your examples do not agree. Wild was stating the advance TO Weir and away from Reno is the rout of Benteen. Your example is moving away from Wier.

AZ Ranger