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Post by lakotadan on Jun 29, 2024 13:06:30 GMT -6
Hello my friends!
So, my Forgotten Gulch book thing. The scheduled release date on a self-publishing book internet site is July 22, so about 3 weeks. They must approve it and release it. Also gives me some time if some minor edits still need to be made (but I think it is good to go as is!).
Not trying to make money, just interested in putting my thoughts on the subject out there for anybody that is interested.
I wanted to collate my posts (whether they are right or wrong!) under one roof so my research is not lost or buried in the archives of this forum!
The book, and its major areas (not including recent edits) was sent to the U.S. Copyright office on June 5th.
Onward!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jun 29, 2024 14:24:58 GMT -6
Good luck with it. here's another "match", so you can see just where the markers are in the horse pics, and get a better idea of where they crossed the SSL ridge. Also good view of the slope down the ridge to DR from just below the monument/area. The sepia horse march picture was taking from a point further SE of the monument (and very likely lower in elevation). Same cluster of markers, w/horses coming over just to the right of them. They are looping past a dr branch up slope. Cross pic taken in 1897 - the line of trees in the upper right across the LBH are still very much the same. Cheers!
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Post by lakotadan on Jun 29, 2024 15:22:22 GMT -6
My friend johnson1941- It is very difficult (as I stated before) to try to figure this stuff out with vintage photographs and pictures! I have included your photographs and pictures on your latest post with markups of where the Forgotten Gulch may be. I have also included the 1932 aerial photograph of the (not filled in yet) Forgotten Gulch (which is a verifiable authentic photograph showing a depression and gultch that is on the battlefield below LSH!) We can keep discussing the possible existance of the Forgotten Gulch for a very long time! Again, as I have stated throughout this thread, it would only take 2 or 3 core samples to be taken by the National Park Service to verify the Forgotten Gulch's existance. Otherwise, we are just spinning our wheels! Onward my friend!
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Post by lakotadan on Jun 29, 2024 16:28:57 GMT -6
Well my friends-
So, here is something interesting!
Just checked my mailbox in the front yard.
There was a letter from the Library of Congress, United States Copyright Office!
My book has been registered and has been made a part of the Copyright Office records!
Effective Date of Registration: June 05, 2024. Registration Decision Date: June 25, 2024.
Well, that is all that I can do!
Hurrah!!!
Onward my friends!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jun 29, 2024 18:30:21 GMT -6
Especially if looking for something they won't show. Or not matching then and now effectively. So, lakota....we keep running into this... This picture: You marked to have the gulch (in blue - yes?) WAY BEHIND/below the line along the ridge where the markers are - the SSL/DR Trail IS the markers, and the markers are mostly along the highs of the ridge at that point. {looks like the horses crossed the ridge near the right edge of your bigger ellipse - above the cross}. This would be the cemetery ravine edge of the ridge. Same here (in red yes?) - your gulch marked BEHIND the line of grave markers on the ridge… Yet in these pictures (and many others): (this one in blue) (this one in red) You have the gulch CROSSING the markers/ trail/ridge, right/near where the horses crossed; As the actual 1926 image shows - they crossed to the north (upside) of the clump of markers (orange ellipse), between gaps with others. (i.e. There is no gulch there!). GEarth - similar view as horse pic…showing the markers in the cluster along the ridge - same cluster in the pic with the horses. It is VERY confusing for us, & you, until you nail this down. Or not. Could be it is showing high points and slopes down to the branches. Since that is what is shown in every other picture and map, that makes the most sense. YES it can be hard! I suggest you find a similar view to one of the pics in google earth/Bing, and then relocate/mainpulate the view to see another viewpoint & view/use relations to the same features and others. Then manipulate THAT one - it really helps being able to match views, zoom in, etc. Anyway - it seems you have been/are marking your gulch in several different places…at different angles at the least. The South Line field from the other direction...cemetery ravine, ridge, and DR branches..
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Post by johnson1941 on Jun 30, 2024 5:16:26 GMT -6
OK - from high above the monument - looking south down the ridge/trail...to the point in Deep Ravine where the bodies were found... what do you got?! ... Can you mark it up? And this we've seen before - added here for an actual idea of the elevations & slopes involved, and the hillocks and dips, and any gulches or whatnot, this "troop E annihilated" view looking north from Deep Ravine where the bodies were found towards the monument. Unfortunately you can not get this low in GE or bing and still look up hill...but the cluster of markers seen in images above (orange ellipse) would be at the grassy hillock above the markers in the upper middle (to the left of the monument in the pic). The lower markers snaking up hill as seen in the Deep ravine "E annihilated" picture - leading up to the cluster on the ridge re: the horses.
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Post by lakotadan on Jun 30, 2024 6:18:55 GMT -6
Hey johnson1941 great work and thanks! But like I stated in one of my recent posts- "It is very difficult (as I stated before) to try to figure this stuff out with vintage photographs and pictures! I have included your photographs and pictures on your latest post with markups of where the Forgotten Gulch may be". And I emphasize "where the Forgotten Gulch may be"! It is even more difficult to do with the current Google earth pictures because of the vegetation that has sprung up, and I can't even make out the outline of the filled in gulch anymore like I did in the Google earth views of last year! Anyway I have included the 1932 aerial photograph in your post, and the same photograph with blue lines of where the Forgotten Gulch is. That is the photograph that started me on this journey! To bad that I can't make out any soldier markers in the 1932 aerial photograph, it might have made it easier to nail this thing down when compared to the current soldier markers in later photographs and pictures. I have also included several pictures (that were shown in some of my previous posts) after the aerial photographs shown here where you can definetly ascertain the filled in Forgotten Gulch (outlined in blue). Oh well, once again, the NPS only needs to take 2 or 3 core samples. If there is no gulch, well at least they tried! But if there is a Forgotten Gulch, then they have some work to do and some reassessments of the battle to make! Onward my friend!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jun 30, 2024 8:21:49 GMT -6
Curiouser and curiouser... 1932 trigger...lets call version 1: #1 version = gulch swallowing end of DR branch, and a lot of the SSL trail along ridge. vs mark-up - lets call this version 2: #2 version = gulch crossing DR trail & ridge near where horses did. version 3 will refer to when you are back to behind the ridge. OK - a GE match to the 1932..has the #1 take of where you think the gulch was (in blue) - engulfing the end of the DR branch. Compare that to +/- where the horses and your gulch crossed (in red). Also clearly see the lower marker trail snaking near DR... 1926 View of horses crossing...right at #2 version of your "gulch" (which isnt there)... View from DR up the serpentine marker trail - somewhere between your version 1 & your version 3… thus one of these is where you want samples from - looking for a gulch? Well - good luck!!
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Post by lakotadan on Jun 30, 2024 8:46:08 GMT -6
johnson1941,
Thanks for wishing me good luck! Much appreciated!
Onward!
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Post by lakotadan on Jun 30, 2024 14:54:00 GMT -6
Hello my friend johnson1941! So, after looking at the pictures you posted I have to disagree with your summation. Version 1 and version 2 are exactly the same. All you must do is rotate the pictures, so LSH is in the same position along with the National Cemetery. Then to find the Forgotten Gulch, just use the South most fence line of the Old National Cemetery (before they added to it). It will just about drop you into the gulch! I have explained this before somewhere in the 37 pages of this thread! I have included pictures so this all can be seen and figured out, with a yellow line showing the South end of the old Cemetery fence line and going (more or less East) towards the Forgotten Gulch. Also, notice that in the Horse train picture those guys are avoiding the Forgotten Gulch like the plague (I used the picture showing a known landmark – the Cemetery- instead of the other picture you used which does not show a landmark but only soldier markers – and those could be anywhere, even closer to the Deep ravine!). So actually, it is all pretty easy to figure out without getting overly complicated in unnecessary details. Just my opinion my friend! Onward and the adventure continues!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jun 30, 2024 17:07:43 GMT -6
OOOkaaaay...IF that is the case, then your gulch is crossing right through the ridge and the SSL / DR trail and the marker cluster - JUST to the left of where the horses crossed. (see bend in trail) This version definitely doesn't work: On the left image, you have clearly marked (in blue) your notion of the missing gulch location - it is crossing the DR Trail. On the right, your missing gulch location (lined in blue/purple) is STILL crossing trail where YOU showed it, THAT is at the horse picture marker cluster (circled in orange), just left of the path of the horses (in red) where THEY crossed. The horse picture marker cluster IS part of/ON THE DR TRAIL, they are still there, as seen in GE...those markers along the Trail are still quite visible when zoomed in! Everything around is visible when zoomed out. The entire Trail. The Ravines, The branches. The ridge. The slope. etc. That marker cluster was then - as clearly seen in the horse picture - and is now, on a higher spot. Not in a gulch. The markers are now part of the DR Trail. Which is mostly on the ridge. The area between the markers and horses is also there - and continuous - and higher - NO gap/gulch. There is a DR branch in front of the markers/ridge (green/arrowhead). The DR branch is visible behind the horses in the picture. And the DR Branch is still there. It is not missing. It was on maps. It is still visible in GE & Bing. ?? Where ?? Where is the gulch?!? The horses are crossing the high spot to the right of the marker cluster, and then looping east. There is a DR branch visible behind the horse loop (in green) all along the low spot - beneath the markers. The horses crossed the higher SSL (now the Trail), and looped to the left farther up the slope (in red) - avoiding the DR branch. The DR branch/es were there then, and are still quite visible in GE. There is no gulch. the markers ARE NOT IN A GULCH. NOR ARE THE HORSES, nor is the continious higher slope all along between & past them. When charting this - you need to refer to/consider markers, DR Trail, ravines, branches, viewpoint etc. - all to each other - to lay this out correctly and consistently. Hang in there! Anyway, Ill bow out now - don't want to hog the discussion & conversation!
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Post by noggy on Jul 1, 2024 0:51:19 GMT -6
There was a letter from the Library of Congress, United States Copyright Office! My book has been registered and has been made a part of the Copyright Office records! Very cool, congratulations. What is the title? Noggy
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Post by lakotadan on Jul 1, 2024 5:20:46 GMT -6
Hey my friend noggy!
Still need some minor edits to it (maybe add a couple of more pictres?), probably won't be released till the end of July. As you know, this is quite the process to get it right! It is about 77 pages in length.
Anyway, the title is (and it's not short!)-
"The Custer Battlefield below Last Stand Hill, and the possibility of a Forgotten Gulch that may have played a significant role in that battle". The title is almost as long as the entire book! Ha, ha, ha, etc.
Onward!
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Post by noggy on Jul 1, 2024 6:14:10 GMT -6
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Post by lakotadan on Jul 1, 2024 14:01:39 GMT -6
Hello all! Yeah, yeah, it is me again (as everybody sighs and says “oh no”- ha, ha, ha,!). So, I just edited my pictures on my post that I posted yesterday. That post was about finding the Forgotten Gulch using the South end of the old Cemetery fence line. I looked at the photograph again of the 1926 Little Bighorn Anniversary horse train movement. I wanted to make my yellow line thicker (the line coming off of the South end of the old Cemetery fence line). Well, that led me to look at the picture closer. I think I found in that photograph another view of the Forgotten Gulch! I have attached an unmarked photograph of the 1926 anniversary. Then I attached a marked photograph where the yellow line is the South fence line and the blue lines indicate the enclosed area of the Forgotten Gulch (even with its bowl feature!). I could be wrong, but it is still exciting stuff! Onward my friends! Attachments:
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