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Post by dave on Sept 29, 2015 12:37:39 GMT -5
magpie
You bring new meaning to the word dogged.
Regards
Dave
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Post by magpie on Sept 29, 2015 15:06:58 GMT -5
Sometimes. I could throw the towel in so I figured a test. Test: did the Finkel's admission come after the pop icon Mrs. Custer publishes her book or before. According to Koster he makes the admission April 1920 and according to Graham Mrs. Custer publishes book in 1921. If these were all confirmed and her book isn't a collection of recent magazine articles. IF IF you've got a lot stronger possibility. Again life is always stranger than fiction.
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Post by dave on Sept 29, 2015 18:38:35 GMT -5
magpie
I admire your interest and determining to follow the Finkel theory. However, I agree with montrose that the story is false.
You are the only one who can answer the question for yourself so good luck with your research.
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Sept 29, 2015 18:52:47 GMT -5
Sometimes. I could throw the towel in so I figured a test. Test: did the Finkel's admission come after the pop icon Mrs. Custer publishes her book or before. According to Koster he makes the admission April 1920 and according to Graham Mrs. Custer publishes book in 1921. If these were all confirmed and her book isn't a collection of recent magazine articles. IF IF you've got a lot stronger possibility. Again life is always stranger than fiction. Frank Finkel's story was published in the Walla Walla paper in 1921 lbha.proboards.com/post/85518/threadLibby Custer's publication dates according to wiki: Boots and Saddles (1885), Tenting on the Plains—(1887), and Following the Guidon (1890) Is there a 4th book? |
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2015 8:46:54 GMT -5
1921, Mrs Custer, "General George A. Custer and the battle of the Little Big Horn" is what Graham (53) say's includes Godfrey's 1892 Century Magazine article. Thanks for the Finkel link.
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2015 10:13:57 GMT -5
magpie I admire your interest and determining to follow the Finkel theory. However, I agree with montrose that the story is false. You are the only one who can answer the question for yourself so good luck with your research. Regards Dave Yes Dave a journey but if you guy's have already beat the dead horse in the past and covered all? enlistment as Hall is interesting as German Trooper Windolph knew his actual German name as Winkle. "I Fought with Custer" Windolph in Hunt&Hunt (1947): "I tried to find the body of my German friend, Trooper Finkle, the tallest man in the regiment. But I could not identify him." Putting an alias on your enlistment papers is perhaps dubious. Once you sign your a slave, plane and simple. British desertion rates for the revolutionary war were 50%. Civil war rates would vary being ever bit as high for draftees. A Higgens boat was a burning bridge on wheels sort of speak. I think Mr. Winkle wanted an out as anyone might. Those two pictures sure seem to match. I wonder if any other surviving German Trooper or other mentioned Winkle name for Hall. I don't think the Officier's would tolerate lying on the enlistment paper but they may have thought it a nick name if it was widely used? |
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Post by fred on Sept 30, 2015 10:27:50 GMT -5
My agenda is to have this board have folks talk to each other, not past each other, We are not, and should not, all have the same views on primary and secondary evidence. We need to encourage folks to post with alternate views. This does not mean ignore evidence. If someone is operating on flawed or false primary/secondary data,; that needs to be addressed. I totally agree. And hopefully we will begin to attract back members who have departed or who nowadays merely lurk. Yes Dave a journey but if you guy's have already beat the dead horse in the past and covered all? Magpie, It makes no difference how long any horse has been beaten: we are all gluttons for punishment here and will re-visit anything you wish to discuss. I think I have told you this before, but it is people like you who have a burgeoning interest in this thing that keep it alive. So ask, ask away: post and post. As long as you don't distort, lie, and cheat, you are part of this community. And from what I have seen so far, a very welcome part. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2015 11:24:09 GMT -5
Thanks but to be frank my biggest interest is in Martini and Custer hat tip on the hill top near Weir Point down to attack at Ford B. How do the Indians defend. How do I as Custer approach? What unit is forward into the River. What happened to the two Girard bodies to the West of the River? Indians say they counter charged so how's that going to work. I think these are Indians on foot. What does Custer do? If he runs laughingly from mere infantry how are his columns arrayed ( one of 4's, two of 4's, one of 2's, or two of 2's or a rabble ) If mounted warriors arrive and tear into his rear ( all pictographs seem that way from rear of column of 2's). You can run up Deep Coulee if you like but you have to answer how many Indians in that rough country will it take to stop your progress and then what? I searched everywhere for defendable spots. Best spot is what I am calling Sheridan's Bench and the attached ridge just North of Ford B but the Indians may already have claimed same. Next seems to be a triangle of ridges which are a little longer in total length than we'd like. So it's last stand hill to deep ravine, deep ravine to Calhoun hill ( not ridge, forget Calhoun Ridge and Coulee go to the ridge from C. hill to deep ravine ) and C. hill to LSH (Custer Ridge). All told measures 2,500 meters. Realize the grass was grazed short in '76. Grade from ridge top down is only about 10% (like a handicap ramp ). Anyway this is the ground you fight. I really don't want people to go to some other ground as your surrounded unless you plan a break out and your going to loose 1/3 your force every 1,000 yards and there's Shangra Lau within 4,000 meters of the graves.
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Post by Beth on Sept 30, 2015 14:02:35 GMT -5
1921, Mrs Custer, "General George A. Custer and the battle of the Little Big Horn" is what Graham (53) say's includes Godfrey's 1892 Century Magazine article. Thanks for the Finkel link. I don't know if I am understanding you. "General George A. Custer and the Battle of the Little Big Horn" is writing by Godfrey. Yesterday I was reading a note from Godfrey to Graham in a State history archive. Unfortunately I can't remember which so I will have to backtrack it on my browsing history. A quick summary of the message between the two men was the Godfrey had read Grahams work and found no objections. Godfrey mentions that there are only 4 survivors at that point and he didn't think they would have any objects to Graham's work but that Godfrey felt that Mrs. Custer's feelings should be taken into consideration. I don't know the statement from Godfrey was made because Mrs. Custer had objected to a quote in his Century Magazine Article so he didn't include it in his book The quote in question was Moylan's. "Gentlemen, in my opinion General Custer has made the biggest mistake in his life by not taking the whole regiment in at once in the first attack” |
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2015 14:23:14 GMT -5
No, Mrs Custer like Graham published a "collection of works by other authors" with her book. It's still a prominent thing in new Custer books.
I can see the protect Mrs Custer and save ones own ______ has blurred the record. Much of the corespondence between players is in Graham (53)
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Post by Beth on Sept 30, 2015 16:14:34 GMT -5
No, Mrs Custer like Graham published a "collection of works by other authors" with her book. It's still a prominent thing in new Custer books. I can see the protect Mrs Custer and save ones own ______ has blurred the record. Much of the corespondence between players is in Graham (53) What is the title because whenever I try to find out what she wrote I only come up with the 3 I mentioned above. |
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Post by magpie on Sept 30, 2015 16:30:59 GMT -5
Was the title I gave according to Graham (53). I'll look in his biblio. He doesn't have a biblio. but substitutes Dustins which is not by author. This maybe the second hole in Graham I've seen. Problem could be if she isn't the primary author too. Like Windolph's appears in Hunts.
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Post by magpie on Oct 1, 2015 11:48:10 GMT -5
OK now Beth you obviously are a good librarian so Graham has either an obscure or false citation. There is a review of Libbie Custer's publications (215 of them?) in "Libbie Custer's "Last Stand" Image Restoration, The Press and Public Memory" Miller, Hume and Sichler in Journalism and Mass Communication Quarterly, Sept 2007 84:582-599 that may give you a lead, I have no way past the Abstract. Somewhere some university etc must have Libby's papers and perhaps somewhere else Graham's papers are housed. Should you choose to take this mission, we will deny any connection................. do ta do, do ta do, bump, bump.............
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Post by magpie on Oct 4, 2015 8:56:33 GMT -5
The Frank Finkel story is an absurd concoction by John Koster. This story ranks right up there with the other famous survivors of history such as Jesse James aka J Frank Dalton, Brushy Bill Roberts aka Billy the Kid, Anna Anderson aka Anastasia Romanov, Estelle Getty aka Amelia Earhart and of course Elvis who was last seen at a Baskin-Robbins in Manchester, NH in June. The sad part of this whole fiasco is that a brave man who gave his life in battle for the United States is trivialized. Not one Indian combatant witnessed any soldier escaping and they are the only ones who could verify this false story. Shame on these fabricators. Regards Dave One of my 2cnd Cousins was captured and executed during the Bulge. We of course wondered the particulars so We looked at the Malmedy Massacre to see if he was one there. You know you can easily get a list of every German involved but not the soldiers. One scholar did put an incomplete list together and we couldn't find him. We do know he was killed, he may have been killed alone or with another group. We do know he died there close to where our Family originated that much the Europeans helped us confirm. The family was told he was captured and executed. Until the Vietnam Veterans Memorial it seem's being used up, cast aside and forgotten was the soldiers reward. |
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Post by herosrest on Oct 5, 2015 4:33:42 GMT -5
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