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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2015 14:56:58 GMT -5
The reference here is a very well written and researched account of Frank Finkel Custer's tallest trooper the regiment, also he was of C Company and his body wasn't found by his buddy Charles Windolph who toured the whole battle field with Benteen. Finkel' s horse took off after Finkel took two bullets and keeps going. Remember Godfry finds a horse, saddle and whole kit at the Yellowstone. Finkel is nursed back to health by some mountain men living on the river and fearing Custer's firing squad ( a reality for an enlisted man ) starts out on a new life. 43 years later someone argues some Custer bullshit with him (now Finkle) and he gets angry and say's he knows what happened because he was there. In the end his Signature is found to be the same on his property documents as his enlistment documents and photographs match, and Finkel has the scars on his body. You can find the write up in: John P. Koster, June 2007 "WILD WEST Magazine" or on Historynet, "Survivor Frank Finkel's lasting stand". Sorry don't know how to link. Anyone have access to the before and after photo's of Finkel ?
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Post by montrose on Sept 28, 2015 15:21:06 GMT -5
SGT Finkle died at LBH.
The later Finkle is a fraud. He never served a single day in the Army. The tale has been known to be false for decades.
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Post by Colt45 on Sept 28, 2015 17:00:24 GMT -5
History Channel, I believe, has an hour long "story" of Frank Finkle. It covers everything Magpie has stated, including the conclusion by one handwriting expert that Frank's story is true, but again, there is no definitive proof either way, so we cannot say for sure that the story was either true or false. Parts of the story as told by Frank, such as the crossing of 2 alkaline areas before finding fresh water ring true, as does his claim he was on a roan versus a white horse when asked if he had been on a white horse. But the part about having shot his worn-out horse doesn't ring true since a horse found in the general area he described still had an undamaged carbine attached to the saddle, and Finckle's story starts out with bullets shattering his rifle, depriving him of it before he is wounded and his horse bolts and runs away with him.
Is the story true? Maybe, but no one can say positively. There are still just too many loose ends. Many people claimed to be a survivor of LBH, but Finckle's is one of the more plausible if not provable.
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Post by benteen on Sept 28, 2015 17:15:16 GMT -5
History Channel, I believe, has an hour long "story" of Frank Finkle. It covers everything Magpie has stated, including the conclusion by one handwriting expert that Frank's story is true, but again, there is no definitive proof either way, so we cannot say for sure that the story was either true or false. Parts of the story as told by Frank, such as the crossing of 2 alkaline areas before finding fresh water ring true, as does his claim he was on a roan versus a white horse when asked if he had been on a white horse. But the part about having shot his worn-out horse doesn't ring true since a horse found in the general area he described still had an undamaged carbine attached to the saddle, and Finckle's story starts out with bullets shattering his rifle, depriving him of it before he is wounded and his horse bolts and runs away with him. Is the story true? Maybe, but no one can say positively. There are still just too many loose ends. Many people claimed to be a survivor of LBH, but Finckle's is one of the more plausible if not provable. Colt45, Sir, there was a poster on this forum "Bandbox troop" his name was Joe Kelly. Unfortunatly he doesnt post any more, but he was very big in the stolen honor factor. He was adamant that this Finkle story was false, and posted various reasons. I believe he actually challenged Koster on it to come to a VA meeting and he said Koster wouldnt show up. I wish I could remember some of his statements on it, but when I read it, at the time I felt it blew this story out of the water. Be Well Dan |
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2015 17:15:58 GMT -5
History Channel, I believe, has an hour long "story" of Frank Finkle. It covers everything Magpie has stated, including the conclusion by one handwriting expert that Frank's story is true, but again, there is no definitive proof either way, so we cannot say for sure that the story was either true or false. Parts of the story as told by Frank, such as the crossing of 2 alkaline areas before finding fresh water ring true, as does his claim he was on a roan versus a white horse when asked if he had been on a white horse. But the part about having shot his worn-out horse doesn't ring true since a horse found in the general area he described still had an undamaged carbine attached to the saddle, and Finckle's story starts out with bullets shattering his rifle, depriving him of it before he is wounded and his horse bolts and runs away with him. Is the story true? Maybe, but no one can say positively. There are still just too many loose ends. Many people claimed to be a survivor of LBH, but Finckle's is one of the more plausible if not provable. All good considerations and is why I was interested in seeing both photo's. Life is always stranger than fiction. Godfry didn't pull the carbine and check it. I wouldn't leave my carbine behind in Indian country unless it was shot. Horse could have had it the details aren't there. Horse could be burning up with fever from being gut shot or just put a leg down a prairie dog hole and broke it. |
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Post by magpie on Sept 28, 2015 17:20:19 GMT -5
Be cool if latent finger prints could be run on the documents as they claimed they used that to catch one of the last Nazi fugatives.
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Post by Beth on Sept 28, 2015 17:37:18 GMT -5
History Channel is such a bastion of truth when it comes to history. Just watch their Jesse James Treasure documentary, Oak Island series or American Unearth's episode on Custer's treasure and you know they would never, ever resort to being the equivalent of the National Enquirer of history. I am surprised they have't produced a series on Bat Boy, but then again they do have MonsterQuest.
You don't find it odd that survivor Finkel didn't make his claims until 1920?
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Post by Beth on Sept 28, 2015 18:09:31 GMT -5
Be cool if latent finger prints could be run on the documents as they claimed they used that to catch one of the last Nazi fugatives. No one would have taken orginal Finkel's fingerprints because fingerprints were not used for identification under decades after Little Big Horn. A quick google says the US military started using then in 1905. |
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Post by dave on Sept 28, 2015 19:12:28 GMT -5
The Frank Finkel story is an absurd concoction by John Koster. This story ranks right up there with the other famous survivors of history such as Jesse James aka J Frank Dalton, Brushy Bill Roberts aka Billy the Kid, Anna Anderson aka Anastasia Romanov, Estelle Getty aka Amelia Earhart and of course Elvis who was last seen at a Baskin-Robbins in Manchester, NH in June.
The sad part of this whole fiasco is that a brave man who gave his life in battle for the United States is trivialized. Not one Indian combatant witnessed any soldier escaping and they are the only ones who could verify this false story.
Shame on these fabricators.
Regards
Dave
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Post by magpie on Sept 29, 2015 8:21:34 GMT -5
Be cool if latent finger prints could be run on the documents as they claimed they used that to catch one of the last Nazi fugatives. No one would have taken orginal Finkel's fingerprints because fingerprints were not used for identification under decades after Little Big Horn. A quick google says the US military started using then in 1905. According to Koster there are ample property documents. In theory you find latent prints on these to match to enlistment documents. A very long chance and I'm not convinced they didn't fake the 60 -70 year old latent fingerprint evidence for the Nazi prosecution. I just think of all the hands documents pass through over the years. The most diffinitive thing would be to run DNA on both Finkel family descendents if they exist in Ohio and Washington State. |
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Post by magpie on Sept 29, 2015 8:28:43 GMT -5
I think unless Koster set it up to be I can deduce additional connections beyond the article: Carbine shot therefore abandoned fit's Godfry. Wood cutters and steam ships and why was Godfry held up there a day? Ship taking on wood fuel? I think ifyou scatter 200 folks over 3 square miles your bound to overlook someone. There's plenty of wiggle room.
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Post by magpie on Sept 29, 2015 8:33:01 GMT -5
History Channel is such a bastion of truth when it comes to history. Just watch their Jesse James Treasure documentary, Oak Island series or American Unearth's episode on Custer's treasure and you know they would never, ever resort to being the equivalent of the National Enquirer of history. I am surprised they have't produced a series on Bat Boy, but then again they do have MonsterQuest. You don't find it odd that survivor Finkel didn't make his claims until 1920? Firing squad. Why say what you can't prove. Survivor guilt is big, most combat veterans never say anything to anybody unless it's someone who was there with them. |
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Post by montrose on Sept 29, 2015 8:45:55 GMT -5
Stolen Honor is a book written about Vietnam, exposing the thousands of people who make fraudulent claims on Vietnam.
There is the exaggeration factor. I live a mile from my VFW post, and generally watch football games there. The Bull S**t gets pretty deep by half time.
But the Finkel fraud is a second category. People who never served in the military claim they did, with wild flights of fancy.
LBH attracted many hundreds of these frauds. Poster Scout on these boards has several hundred posts examining this issue. He was Mike Nunnally, who has passed away. He has numerous writings on this subject.
The Finkel story is a complete fabrication. Finkel never served a single day in the US Army. If he was alive today he would be moderating the other board.
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Post by fred on Sept 29, 2015 9:00:38 GMT -5
John Koster is a good guy, but with this nonsense, he is full of beans. The ridiculous thing called the History Channel (I believe it was) ran a two-hour show on this character and of course, Koster was all over it. A buddy of his named Doug Ellison was part of it. Ellison wrote a small booklet titled, Mystery of the Rosebud, essentially de-bunking the Nathan Short-found-on-the-Rosebud silliness, but fell hook, line, and sinker for the Finkel tripe. Koster-- if memory serves me correctly-- is a former reporter for the New York Daily News (that explains it!!!), who now has every other article in the comic book called Wild West Magazine (it should be noted, I have a distasteful history with WW, so I have an axe here), and while some of Koster's stuff is quite good, the Finkel business will always color his veracity.
Having blasted him, I will say, John is a very good guy... and more than that, a very decent fellow.
Best wishes,
Fred.
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Post by magpie on Sept 29, 2015 11:49:30 GMT -5
On Koster's post of a copy on History net there is a long discussion board and a Finkel family member is on it. DNA is the way to answer this. That abandoned, possibly damaged carbine seems significant to me as wood cutter's on the Yellowstone makes sense. My Great Great Uncle Abraham Young or Coon was killed by Indians withing 200 miles east of that in 1869 and he was heading to the Missouri to do just that at the time, cut wood for the steam ships. I went back found Godfry 1908 republished in Graham (53)page 146, apparently also in 1921 by Mrs. Custer: mentions camped at mouth of Rosebud but nothing of Steam Ship Far West. So the problem then is the info was out before Finkel came forward. If you find the Far West was taking on fuel in that vicinity, mouth of Rosebud you'd have a new uncontaminated connection.
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