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Post by herosrest on Aug 14, 2023 11:37:25 GMT -6
Thorougly enjoyed the game and some glimpses of really talented play. Fair result. We still need a battering ram.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 14, 2023 12:32:50 GMT -6
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Post by herosrest on Aug 15, 2023 2:58:12 GMT -6
John D. Miles account (from named Cheyennes) was widely published by the press and among, if not the, first from the Indian side. It's a tedious doozey which says all things to all men about the battle. There is no doubt it went into public consciousness through the press and was reflected or corroborated by later accounts. One worth thinking through in conjuction with it, is the Allen account in 'Twenty Years in the Rocky Mountains'. It's on Archive.org... or was. Another interesting thumb through is babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=nyp.33433081826541&seq=9Another bit of the puzzle is Moving Robes attack on the horse holder with eight mounts. There is a Cheyenne pictogram of seven dead soldiers and an eight about to join them from CQC. So, MR rode and fought with...... Rain in the Face. He left a map and several accounts of the wamped 'em. Regards.
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 15, 2023 14:01:07 GMT -6
"Renos Retreat A large part of the battalion went up east branch through on a buffalo trail through a washout cut. I have found however, many who were there at the time but knew nothing of this cut, so that the ascent of the bank must have taken place for a considerable distance along it. The river bed at that time was probably a few rods west of its present coursed, as the indications are that the stream has cut some distance into the east bank"
Rutten "The opposite bank was high and steep and men were riding both up stream and down stream trying to find some place to get up. Finally the mob of horsemen made for a narrow trail cut by buffalo in going for water which cut through the steep bank at a moderate incline."
Hmmm...so Thompson could have come down right where we thought.
Thompson "When I had nearly gained the top of the hill..." ... I began to make tracks once more in a lively manner and in a short time reached the point I had started for. At this point the trail was washed very badly on both sides as it descended towards the river" ... "We found that we had made a mistake and had taken a wrong trail. The trail we had followed had been made by buffalo when going to and from the river."
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 17, 2023 1:09:35 GMT -6
The Lazy White Bull link is great - thanks!
Helps tie it all togther “A lot of people there together. White Bull does not know, but he thinks that there were three [Ree] Indian Scouts that took away about ten head of horses. Chased by Owl was killed. White Bull was killed [Note: the deceased White Bull was a Hunkpapa, while the speaker, Lazy White Bull, was a Minneconjou] . When they start fighting, Three Bears [and] Dog with Horns were killed, and after they started for them, White Bull and Swift Bear were shot by a Ree Scout. White Bull does not know the Ree, Bloody Knife. A Cheyenne was killed after Swift Bear and also by a Ree soldier. White Eagle was killed also. The Ree's name that shot the two Indians was Buffalo Cloud. The Ree was shot down and the Sioux captured the Ree's horse first, and then they went for the Ree and he shot two of them. The Sioux was White Eagle [and] Elk Stands on Hill Top [who] were killed; but they don't know who killed Ree. The Ree that killed Elk Stands on Top was killed right afterwards.”
And this for Custer at Ford B as per Hairy Mocassin
“Custer was coming but they rest their horses and then started toward Custer, and they shot two of Custer's men before the army stopped”.
Hairy Moccasin "...Then Custer and command turned down south coulee into Medicine Tail Coulee and went down toward river and out onto flat. Two men were killed here.."
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Post by shan on Aug 17, 2023 4:23:14 GMT -6
johnson1941
went looking for the link where you got that interesting piece but couldn't find it.
A little confused by some of those names, but seem to remember that Amos Bad Heart Bull did a number of drawings where he named the men who were killed by the Rees that may well be the same as the men you mentioned.
Shan
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 17, 2023 5:00:23 GMT -6
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 18, 2023 5:13:57 GMT -6
On the Custer Outlook... Curtis 1907 (Weir Hill or Crow's Nest??) Same group at monument: Attachments:
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 8:06:03 GMT -6
Some research into Amos the Artist - link and others.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 8:13:15 GMT -6
In regards the Curtis information such as Custer's Lookout and map and God only knows what else, there is the continuing and potentially everlasting oversight of the event which brought about the disaster. That is the large number of Indians who attacked Custer's command by climbing the bluffs below Weir Pk. and crossing MTC to the attack on the five companies. It happened. It sworn testmony at Chicago by an Officer who saw it. The route up the bluffs was mapped by Patterson Hughes dated June 30, 1876.
Why would troops at Calhoun Hill, attack Custer's Hill? Because Indian marksmen on CH made life uncomfortable at Calhoun. They moved them off dominating high ground and were cut off.
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 18, 2023 8:47:03 GMT -6
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 9:59:55 GMT -6
Roger. Lazy White Bull was one of those who went that way. White Bull did not kill anything; but he wanted to kill a soldier on a gray horse, but he could not hit him.14 After they stopped from chasing these three [soldiers], they rest, and Custer was coming but they rest their horses and then started toward Custer, and they shot two of Custer's men before the army stopped.This is pretty basic battle stuff from Vestal, who did a bit (tons) of work with the lazy White Bull, there's even a map. Popular theory has Crazy Horse bowing an Eagle Bone whistle about this time. Besides where he actually crossed the river, I have always wondered if he whistled 'Dixie' at Custer. White Bull's 1932 interview (notebook 24) reveals: "Where we were standing on side of hill, we saw another [body of] troop moving from east to north where [fleeing] camp was moving, and we charged; it was Custer. We went down east side of the river and we rode straight to Custer. [It] was three miles from where we left Reno to Custer. Chased Custer indefinite distance. Could not see Custer as he was in company. But [it] was about mile from Custer to hill. Still riding in a walking and trotting [pace], still close together. Custer did not stop before they reached [Calhoun Hill?]. They kept shooting as Custer kept moving."
From the astonisher page notes........ so, we have LWB upen the bluffs and across Medicine Tail's ck. to do what he did.
Oh my............... it's a link. The White Bull map. What joy............
I haven't a clue how the syntax did what it did to the last lines of the post. Don't care either but it sure looks good
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Post by herosrest on Aug 18, 2023 10:12:18 GMT -6
His Fights - Ogalala by Edward S. CurtisNow, tell me 'His Fights'. Tell me all about the Custer fight......... From the Astonisher notes - saving me trawling it all up again - 21 The individual, Did Not Go Home, has not been identified. Vestal, Warpath, pp. 200-201, states that Lt. Henry H. Harrington was this suicide. This is obviously an erroneous conclusion since the incident took place on Reno's battlefield. Down at Reno there was two soldiers got away, and the Indians killed one and the other killed himself, according to Did Not Go Home, who chased them. 21
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Post by johnson1941 on Aug 20, 2023 4:40:13 GMT -6
WB Map is interesting…companies coming to battle ridge from way east. .
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Post by herosrest on Aug 20, 2023 7:28:58 GMT -6
Yup.
Down at Reno, I think it was actually three soldiers who got away, with one quickly killed and the others chased as given. The Ree Narratives tell of ten soldiers riding into a ditch and being unhorsed in the smoke and dust, and that jives the jibe with Reno's later ditch, coulee, tell 'em anything except reality, type ideas going into Chicago. There were at least two of Reno's men who crossed the river towards the bluffs and then............ went back across into the valley. A half of McIntosh's company never got the order to retreat and when Lt. Wallace led the remnants onto the bluffs, his unit strength was....... four men or so. There should have been some thirty odd markers scattered about the valley for those dead but O.J. Sweet's orders were for them on the Custer Battlefield. Reno Hill and the valley were private land owned by the Crows.
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