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Post by Yan Taylor on Feb 6, 2015 8:59:57 GMT -6
Yes Tom it finished a draw, we had a man sent off early in the game and went 16-0 down, but what a come back. I posted it in case Justin forgot to watch the game, its rugby league you see and he is a rugby union stalwart, Wales and England play tonight, so much gloating will go to the victors when the dust settles, the Welch have home advantage over a very understrength England team, but they will give it a go and if they do get beat it will go down as a very courageous sporting defeat.
Ian.
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 6, 2015 9:19:01 GMT -6
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Post by dave on Feb 6, 2015 13:47:05 GMT -6
Tom You make an excellent point in that post secondary education is not needed or required by all young people. It has been estimated (somewhere in Chronicle of Higher Education back in the late 90,s I retired in 1999) that about 1/3 of college students had no business in higher education. This is very difficult for colleges and universities to admit since selling degrees pays their salaries. Community Colleges (once called junior colleges ) use to be the vocational tech resource for communities. Mission shift/drift over the past 15 years or so has seen the vocational aspect being promoted or taught. More money selling two year degrees as a by way to Real World through 4 year schools. That is just one man's opinion ad maybe somewhat jaded even.
Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Feb 6, 2015 14:33:23 GMT -6
Tom You make an excellent point in that post secondary education is not needed or required by all young people. It has been estimated (somewhere in Chronicle of Higher Education back in the late 90,s I retired in 1999) that about 1/3 of college students had no business in higher education. This is very difficult for colleges and universities to admit since selling degrees pays their salaries. Community Colleges (once called junior colleges ) use to be the vocational tech resource for communities. Mission shift/drift over the past 15 years or so has seen the vocational aspect being promoted or taught. More money selling two year degrees as a by way to Real World through 4 year schools. That is just one man's opinion ad maybe somewhat jaded even. Regards Dave The high school that my daughters go to is actually acting as a vocational tech school for some students through what they call an academies program. Kids are graduating with tech certifications like as a pharmacy assistant, nursing assistant, first responder and all sorts of certs for someone heading into the office enviroment. I've heard of other schools that offer programs for students to become vet techs and of course automotives. The HS the girls would have gone to if we stayed in Florida they would have these academies opent to them. Academies
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Post by Dark Cloud on Feb 6, 2015 14:47:36 GMT -6
This today in the Atlantic. But Williams is no worse than many, many others. Doesn't excuse it. And, it is common. If you've ever had drinks with vets at their local hall, you can probably stick a fork in a great many tales told there. Other vets tolerate it if not denigrating to others, or so I'm told. If it helps them deal with stuff, fine. It's when they try to profit in some way that they reap their harvest if they're caught. I suspect some on this board, and the bat guano insane one, allow assumptions to be made if they haven't lied outright. There are people here who don't answer cleanly when asked if they served, or if so, served in combat, a question for a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Rather than that, one said he'd heard the bullets whistle by in Korea, but that isn't combat necessarily. Hunters and urban dwellers in this country can say the same. www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-war-stories-exposed/Democrats make a big deal when some Chickenhawk Repub is exposed, and the GOP when some supposed Marine/Seal/Army hero becomes anti-war and never, ever served, or served as a janitor at some base, and is now running for office. There are stories that McCain never really told the truth about his relationship with his captors and there are vets, some POW's, who bitch about his release when others stayed longer. Who could know. Note in the article from CBS that Dan Rather was a fraud in this regard. I'd have spilled everything, immediately. I never served, was never in combat or in fear of my life. No trouble saying that. And hard to say who - the military or myself - is happier about it. Even Reagan claimed he'd been with units that freed two Nazi concentration camps but he never left Culver City during the war, and was home with his wife throughout. He made movies. Suspect it's easy to do. So common is it that the stereotypical vet from the CW on in plays and literature was often portrayed as tale teller, albeit in an innocent sense. And there's reason to believe that soldiers enjoy being praised so much that they accord the praiser brotherhood status even if he himself is a fraud. There have been a number of frauds who never served who made near a living speaking at vet events in uniform. It must be fairly easy to do.
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Post by Beth on Feb 6, 2015 15:09:20 GMT -6
There have been and always will be people who fake being a war veteran. It's actually a pretty common con that men use to scam women out of their life savings and leave them in debt with ruined lives. I've had it happen to two friends and I can assure you from personal experience those who want to believe, will not be discouraged and will only resent the person who tries to point out the true.
Beth
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Post by Colt45 on Feb 6, 2015 15:23:08 GMT -6
Sadly, DC, you are correct about their being frauds who pose as if they are combat veterans. Real vets can generally spot them fairly quickly, but civilians generally won't. In my days in uniform (late Vietnam and post-Vietnam) nobody tried to fake being in the military because we were all still considered baby killers and in general were pariahs in the population at large. I am happy that nowadays veterans are given the honors by the public they so richly deserve and unfortunately a lot of people who never served try to latch onto that adulation by wearing a uniform (generally incorrectly) or by making claims to have served.
I served during the Vietnam era, but never went to Vietnam or saw combat. Sometimes people ask me what it was like in Vietnam and I tell them I wasn't sent there, that I am a vet of the Vietnam era, not a Vietnam vet. There's a difference. I would never dishonor those that did go over there by claiming to be a Vietnam vet when I had no idea what it was like over there. Seems the same kind of desire to latch onto someone else's glory or experiences exists in the media as we see with Brian Williams. It was just so unnecessary because correspondents and other news media figures who go into the war zones are subject to death and injury also. That fact alone earns them some respect, just for being at risk, even if it is not as great as the actual combat troops. To try and glorify one's self by enhancing tales or just outright lying about them totally destroys their credibility, at least as far as I am concerned.
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Post by Beth on Feb 6, 2015 16:35:17 GMT -6
Sadly, DC, you are correct about their being frauds who pose as if they are combat veterans. Real vets can generally spot them fairly quickly, but civilians generally won't. In my days in uniform (late Vietnam and post-Vietnam) nobody tried to fake being in the military because we were all still considered baby killers and in general were pariahs in the population at large. I am happy that nowadays veterans are given the honors by the public they so richly deserve and unfortunately a lot of people who never served try to latch onto that adulation by wearing a uniform (generally incorrectly) or by making claims to have served. I served during the Vietnam era, but never went to Vietnam or saw combat. Sometimes people ask me what it was like in Vietnam and I tell them I wasn't sent there, that I am a vet of the Vietnam era, not a Vietnam vet. There's a difference. I would never dishonor those that did go over there by claiming to be a Vietnam vet when I had no idea what it was like over there. Seems the same kind of desire to latch onto someone else's glory or experiences exists in the media as we see with Brian Williams. It was just so unnecessary because correspondents and other news media figures who go into the war zones are subject to death and injury also. That fact alone earns them some respect, just for being at risk, even if it is not as great as the actual combat troops. To try and glorify one's self by enhancing tales or just outright lying about them totally destroys their credibility, at least as far as I am concerned. My dad was a Korean war era vet and we have always understood the difference. When Dad died a couple years ago, the funeral home put in his obit that he was a Korean War vet. We had a several people--total strangers and not even members of the church show up wearing t-shirts decorated in flags and in one case a woman with the walker decorated with flags, stickers and a poster about thanking war veterans. It made us (family) extremely uncomfortable. My dad was very proud to have served as a Marine but he never once called himself a war vet nor would he have appreciated a family event becoming the background for well meaning people making a political statement. Oh and all those strangers did stick around for the luncheon though not a single one of them approached any of the family. Beth
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Post by chris on Feb 6, 2015 17:44:42 GMT -6
I served during the Vietnam era, but never went to Vietnam or saw combat. Sometimes people ask me what it was like in Vietnam and I tell them I wasn't sent there, that I am a vet of the Vietnam era, not a Vietnam vet. There's a difference. I would never dishonor those that did go over there by claiming to be a Vietnam vet when I had no idea what it was like over there. Good point Colt, I am a member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club and never represent myself otherwise. That would be flat wrong. My Marine older brother was on the ground there and proudly wore that ribbon. Best, c.
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Post by dave on Feb 7, 2015 15:12:35 GMT -6
I never served but my father put in 23 years USN starting with enlistment on December 15, 1941 when turned 17. Dad served on the USS Portland during the Guadalcanal fighting in the fall of 1942 and other Pacific campaigns. He never talked about his war experiences and never pretended to be what he was a young man scared by war. I am amazed that those who attempt and sometimes do steal valor, always are the heroes, never just a survivor. They tell the most outlandish tales and they got embolden to add even more outlandish stories. Theodore Goldin was not ahead of his time he was early, on time and late. Regards Dave
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Post by chris on Feb 7, 2015 15:26:50 GMT -6
I never served but my father put in 23 years USN starting with enlistment on December 15, 1941 when turned 17. Dad served on the USS Portland during the Guadalcanal fighting in the fall of 1942 and other Pacific campaigns. He never talked about his war experiences and never pretended to be what he was a young man scared by war.... Dave Dave, my father served in the WW2 Navy too (Pacific). He was a SeaBee 2nd class Boatswain and rarely spoke of his experiences. Best, c.
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Post by dave on Feb 7, 2015 18:34:43 GMT -6
Chris My father started out on the Portland (he was a signalman) transferred to the USS Smith a destroyer. He moved to submarines and spent the 1950 on the old diesel boats such as the USS Tusck and lastly on the USS Redfish. He served his last 2 years on shore duty at the NROTC Unit at Ole Miss. QC do you ever model any of the old Gato and Balao class boats? Dave
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Post by quincannon on Feb 7, 2015 20:20:32 GMT -6
Dave I think you mean the 426 boat USS Tusk. I built two of her Guppy sisters, Cutlass and Chopper. I have a bunch of Gatos and Balaos in my collection Drum, Trigger, Barb, Tang, Hammerhead, Harder, Wahoo, Seahorse, Sablefish, Toro (my brother in laws boat) and Razorback.
As a kid I was on Drum many times as she was the dockside trainer in DC, docked at the Navy Yard where my Dad worked.
Tusk is still around in the Republic of China Navy, although she is so old she creaks, and is used mainly to train new submariners. Cutlass is the same, and I had a choice when I did Cutlass to do one or the other.
My Drum is the biggest sub I ever built at 1/144 scale, that makes her just over two feet long.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 7, 2015 20:46:44 GMT -6
I just can't understand how you people pay so much attention to this trash news concerning trust, authenticity, and such like, and the really important world changing events like Bruce Jenner's sex change, and Rosie O'Donnell leaving the View - AGAIN, have the potential to alter the course of human history. It is beyond me.
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Post by dave on Feb 7, 2015 20:52:40 GMT -6
QC You are exactly right on it being the Tusk. I am fascinated the width of your collection. I have been on the Razorback, over in Littlerock, and on the Drum many times. I remember being on the Redfish, we lived in San Diego for 8 plus years 1952 to 1960, and one time we submerged in the Bay. Had a certificate at one time. Wish you could show photos of your work. Regards Dave
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