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Post by tubman13 on Jun 28, 2014 21:14:34 GMT -6
Sitting on the porch of a cabin in the Smoky Mountains. Had a chance to meet Gordy's daughter early this week. Other than her desire to kiss a grizzly bear and lose a finger rather than shoot the grizzly, she is attractive, intelligent, and very focused.
Chris, got your photos, will forward when I get home. Thanks for time you spent on the lead up to the battle.
AZ, thanks for your insights to Gordies book, breakfast, and the info on the terrain.
QC, breakfast at the Treading Post was just fine.
Regards, Tom
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 28, 2014 21:20:02 GMT -6
Fred, your favorite ranger said to say hi and wishes all well. He is also working on a new book.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jun 28, 2014 21:21:20 GMT -6
Maybe they got a new cook. Maybe you didn't have hamburgers and fries for breakfast. Glad you enjoyed your trip. Going to try and make my pilgrimage to Mecca next year, unless my prayer rug wears out, but I am going to breakfast in Sheridan in the style I would love to become accustomed to, and pack my lunch. I wonder if caviar will spoil in the June sun.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 4:09:13 GMT -6
Thanks Tom - Sounds like you had a great trip. Best, c.
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 29, 2014 14:30:40 GMT -6
Maybe they got a new cook. Maybe you didn't have hamburgers and fries for breakfast. Glad you enjoyed your trip. Going to try and make my pilgrimage to Mecca next year, unless my prayer rug wears out, but I am going to breakfast in Sheridan in the style I would love to become accustomed to, and pack my lunch. I wonder if caviar will spoil in the June sun. My cooler functioned well on the caviar, but truffles wilted and could not find a properly chilled champagne on site. Don't doubt the breakfast, and service was superb.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 29, 2014 15:04:05 GMT -6
I don't recall any problem at all with the service. Everyone there was quite friendly and I spent considerable time book shopping there too.
When I go I will stay in Sheridan as I did the last time, so breakfast and dinner will probably be there. I intend to stay the whole day this time, as I will be with my friend Jack,not the madam, whose presence makes battlefield excursions problematic. At Vicksburg for instance her statement when making her desire to depart known was - I don't see why you have to get out and look at every gun. One damned cannon looks just like another. So you see the avoidance here of anticipated issues on my part. Cowardly to some perhaps, smart to others.
I don't see how you survived with wilted truffles and improperly chilled champagne. One must maintain one's standards. Next thing you know they will require you to carry your own canteen, and the uppity servants will refuse to fan you and erect your pavillion while you observe history. No justice in this world. Not a damned bit.
Whoever this new member Bob1948 is he dares to share the same birthday with me. The servants won't be a bit happy about that either. All this time I though the stars in their courses, the planets aligned just so made that day exclusively mine. These modern times are just too much sometimes for us simple folk.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 30, 2014 6:58:22 GMT -6
The missus said if we go back states side and I want to visit the LBH Battle Field, she will stay in NY City and leave me to it, but I cannot leave her there on her jacksee, so that would mean sharing the trip with a couple of relatives.
Was it Chuck who mentioned earlier about bad burgers, well I went to watch a charity five K race yesterday, and this burger van was selling what looked like good burgers, I was wrong, not only did this burger taste like it was made out of rats asses, but it cost be £3.
Ian.
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 30, 2014 7:31:30 GMT -6
Ian, in Montana they make those burgers out of prairie dog, but still taste like rats ass, only they only cost $1.50.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 30, 2014 8:00:22 GMT -6
Well Tom as things stand a British Pound is worth $1.70, so the Montana burger would have cost me about 90p, the one I ate yesterday was so full of grizzle, I was picking bits out of my teeth all day, I even found a small piece of bone in it too.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Jun 30, 2014 8:37:17 GMT -6
Talk of burgers, caviar, champagne, and disgruntled servants aside Tom.
What did you learn from your visit?
In light of what you may have learned did your opinions change, stay the same, or go from no to maybe, or yes to maybe not?
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 30, 2014 19:12:05 GMT -6
Talk of burgers, caviar, champagne, and disgruntled servants aside Tom. What did you learn from your visit? In light of what you may have learned did your opinions change, stay the same, or go from no to maybe, or yes to maybe not? I will explain when I have the time, I have 9 acres of pasture to finish cutting and a 90 ft tree came down while I was gone. I will give a teaser here and will start a thread at a later date. I will say this; it is Gordy, a tiny bit DC, much of what you and Fred believe. Four things to start, Steve has a great handle on terrain & horses, Custer could have attacked frontally at MTC, I don't think he ever reached ford D, and was killed conducting a rear guard action. I will deliver one fact, that is, he could have seen Keogh an his men from LSH, If on horseback as I could see some stones and men are taller than stones. Go ahead, rip it so far, if you will. Where is Fred when I need to be put in my place. It is not so much a matter of time but of distance and beat horses. Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jun 30, 2014 21:11:28 GMT -6
I don't think he ever made it to D either or needed to for that matter. I always heard Harper could be very persuasive. I am assuming the rear guard business has its genesis there. I will look forward to what you present.
Custer could have attacked frontally at MTC. Whomever said he could not. Attacking is one thing. Attacking with sufficient frontage, therefore enough combat power at the point of the spear is another. Assaulting Ford B and the wisdom of assaulting Ford B are two different, mutually exclusive things.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 1, 2014 2:19:31 GMT -6
I don't think he ever reached ford D (Tom).
I don't think he ever made it to D either (Chuck).
Well make that three, I know it sounds controversial, but I don’t think it was possible that he made it much further than the Kellogg marker, if hostiles had rode round the from the north to attack Keogh, then they also would have used any other fords (around the deep ravine area) to get at the soldiers, so GAC should have seen this and acted accordingly, thus defending the cemetery area.
Tom, just one last thing, I don’t think it mattered if Custer could see the Keogh complex from LSH, I doubt if Keogh was still standing when GAC reach LSH.
Glad you enjoyed your trip. Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Jul 1, 2014 8:43:00 GMT -6
Ian: Keep in mind I am not saying that a recon of Ford D was not what Custer was all about up there. I believe it was if for no other reason that absent a recon of that place what other reason would he go up there. Going to and making a recon of are different in context. The second could be accomplished without the first. My own view is that Custer got down to about where the gravel pit is now then swung southward, and reversed to about where Kellogg was found. Fred has it a little different.
I am most intrigued by this rear guard thing. Like to see how that plays out, and my first question will be, what is the overall commander doing getting mixed up in a rear guard affair when his job is commanding the whole. If a convincing case can be made I just may purchase Harper's book, assuming that is where it comes from.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 1, 2014 10:16:00 GMT -6
Hello Chuck, the main reason would be what made him turn tail and defend the cemetery area, I know that a few say that he was compelled to deploy because of hostiles moving through deep ravine, but if the area was clear then why didn’t he just move back the way he come, that would take him away from deep ravine.
If this was a recon in force, then to decision to fight a pitched battle with only two weak companies must have been made because he had no other choice, even the Billy Keogh notion about finding a good defensive area and play a waiting game would be suicidal with the few troops he had.
To try and work out his motives after his move back to cemetery area, must include the idea that nothing after the Kellogg marker was done without Indian pressure and it was then that he lost control, the move back to LSH could be a broken F Company and a panicking HQ.
Ian.
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