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Post by Dark Cloud on Jan 28, 2013 20:53:29 GMT -6
He could well have been wrong for the specific reason of their changing ordinance, but he knew the planes were likely to be in disarray within a certain time parameter, and pushed that. Worked, if by coincidence. Lot of 50-50 calls.
I imagine that the ones that don't work haunt, and the ones that do embarrass when you realize how coincidental it was that they worked is in hindsight and how bad it could have been.
It must be god awful, anyway it pans out.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 28, 2013 21:13:12 GMT -6
Browning had the right idea. Yes the most vulnerable period would be when the first strike returned, but had things gone as planned, had Yorktown not be sighted, had the loads not been changed out, the second strike would have been airborne,. The first strike would be back aboard their carriers, BUT, all that loose ordnance would not be on the hanger deck, but rather in the magazines, and it is highly doubtful that the damage caused to Kido Butai would have been anywhere near as bad. If Kido Butai survived the first American attack relatively intact, the battle would have most likely been lost, There were not a hell of a lot of aircraft that returned to our carriers in any kind of shape to fight on. Not much left at all.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 28, 2013 21:22:28 GMT -6
AK: You know I almost felt guilty about all this Midway talk on a thread dedicated to Victory Disease, but when you look at it Midway was the greatest manifestation of Victory Disease in the Twentieth Century. So I don't feel so bad after all.
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Post by alfakilo on Jan 28, 2013 22:03:45 GMT -6
AK: You know I almost felt guilty about all this Midway talk on a thread dedicated to Victory Disease, but when you look at it Midway was the greatest manifestation of Victory Disease in the Twentieth Century. So I don't feel so bad after all. Me either! A good discussion of a favorite subject of mine! AK
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 29, 2013 5:17:05 GMT -6
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Post by Gatewood on Jan 29, 2013 7:28:42 GMT -6
On Browning
Per Lundstrom - "Spruance had no aviation experience, but he was to be assisted by the brilliant if erratic Captain Miles Browning, Halsey's chief of staff. This did not work out well. Halsey had the facility of taking the best advice of Browning and overruling him when his own judgement came into conflict, and he was sorely missed at the battle. Spruance's inexperience left him little choice but to let Browning run the air show, and Browning did a terrible job."
Per Morrsion - "one of the most irascible officers ever to earn a fourth stripe, but he was a man with a slide-rule brain."
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Post by alfakilo on Jan 29, 2013 8:42:33 GMT -6
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Post by quincannon on Jan 29, 2013 9:37:31 GMT -6
OK: Since the Midway turn to this thread seems popular, I am going to do something I have never done before.
Yesterday I received in the mail four Allen M. Sumner Class destroyer models. The models are 1/1200 scale so they are not complicated and all four are near completion. They have to be named and the Sumner Class is full of ships named for men lost at Midway. One will be Waldron. I leave it to you collectively to name the other three. Anyone up to this?
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 29, 2013 10:36:47 GMT -6
Hi Chuck;
The USS Cooper, Meredith, and Drexler were lost, so you could name ones in their honour.
Ian.
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Post by wild on Jan 29, 2013 10:45:58 GMT -6
USS Caine
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Post by quincannon on Jan 29, 2013 11:06:46 GMT -6
Ian: Thanks. Good suggestions showing that you have done some homework
Wild: You continue to be a smart ass.
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Post by Gatewood on Jan 29, 2013 11:11:39 GMT -6
U.S.S "Unsung Heroes" in honor of the "Unsung Heroes of Midway", the Pearl Harbor personel who performed miracles in sufficiently repairing Yorktown after Coral Sea to get her into the Midway fight. Her air crews were resonsible for most of the damage to the Japanese, and the battle would have turned out far differently without her.
You stipultated that your ships were to be named in honor of those lost at Midway, and, since Yourktown was lost, this would satisfy your requirement, in a round about way.
A couple of other possibilities (of those that have not actually had ships named for them:
The President of the United States of America takes pride in presenting the Navy Cross (Posthumously) to Lieutenant Ralph Waldo Elden (NSN: 0-70255), United States Navy, for extraordinary heroism and extreme disregard for personal safety while serving as Executive Officer of the Destroyer U.S.S. HAMMANN (DD-412), during action against enemy Japanese forces near Midway Island, on 6 June 1942. When the Commanding Officer was temporarily disabled, Lieutenant Elden immediately took charge and, with cool courage and unfailing presence of mind, continued to direct abandon ship operations aboard the rapidly sinking vessel until the decks were completely awash and he went down into the sea. A few seconds thereafter he was killed by an underwater explosion. While faithfully and efficiently performing his duties he gallantly gave up his life in the service of his country. General Orders: Authority: Board of Awards: Serial 19 (October 14, 1942) Action Date: 6-Jun-42 Service: Navy Rank: Lieutenant Company: Executive Officer Division: U.S.S. Hammann (DD-412)
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The President of the United States of America takes pride in presenting the Navy Cross (Posthumously) to Machinist Harry Lee Corl (NSN: 0-146618), United States Navy, for extraordinary heroism in operations against the enemy while serving as Pilot of a carrier-based Navy Torpedo Plane of Torpedo Squadron THREE (VT-3), attached to the U.S.S. YORKTOWN (CV-5), during the "Air Battle of Midway," against enemy Japanese forces on 4 June 1942. During participation in a Torpedo Plane assault on Japanese naval units, Machinist Corl, observing his Squadron Commander crash in flames, gallantly took the lead of the squadron and pressed home the attack to a point where it became relatively certain that the successful accomplishment of his mission would entail a great loss of life. Nevertheless, by his courageous initiative and aggressive leadership, he enabled his squadron to reach its objective and score several hits on enemy aircraft carriers. His loyal devotion to duty and utter disregard of personal safety contributed materially to the success of our forces and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. General Orders: Bureau of Naval Personnel Information Bulletin No. 309 (December 1942) Action Date: 4-Jun-42 Service: Navy Rank: Machinist Company: Torpedo Squadron 3 (VT-3) Division: U.S.S. Yorktown (CV-5)
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The President of the United States of America takes pride in presenting the Navy Cross (Posthumously) to Ensign William Warner Abercrombie (NSN: 0-98514), United States Naval Reserve, for extraordinary heroism in operations against the enemy while serving as Pilot of a carrier-based Navy Torpedo Plane of Torpedo Squadron EIGHT (VT-8), attached to the U.S.S. HORNET (CV-8), during the "Air Battle of Midway," against enemy Japanese forces on 4 June 1942. Grimly aware of the hazardous consequences of flying without fighter protection, and with insufficient fuel to return to his carrier, Ensign Abercrombie, resolutely, and with no thought of his own life, delivered an effective torpedo attached against violent assaults of enemy Japanese aircraft and against an almost solid barrage of anti-aircraft fire. His courageous action, carried out with a gallant spirit of self-sacrifice and a conscientious devotion to the fulfillment of his mission, was a determining factor in the defeat of the enemy forces and was in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country. Action Date: June 4, 1942 Service: Navy Rank: Ensign Company: Torpedo Squadron 8 (VT-8) Division: U.S.S. Hornet (CV-8)
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Post by quincannon on Jan 29, 2013 11:28:12 GMT -6
Actually the three that I originally had in mind were Robert K. Huntington, James C. Owens, and Massey.
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Post by benteen on Jan 29, 2013 11:57:56 GMT -6
OK: Since the Midway turn to this thread seems popular, I am going to do something I have never done before. Yesterday I received in the mail four Allen M. Sumner Class destroyer models. The models are 1/1200 scale so they are not complicated and all four are near completion. They have to be named and the Sumner Class is full of ships named for men lost at Midway. One will be Waldron. I leave it to you collectively to name the other three. Anyone up to this? Colonel. How about Taffy 3. In honor of those brave sailors at Leyte Gulf Be Well Dan
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Post by quincannon on Jan 29, 2013 12:16:48 GMT -6
Dan: In a way they have already been honored. There was a new Johnston, a new Hoel, and two new Samuel B. Roberts (one still in commission). In addition there was an Evans. Only Gambier Bay and Saint Lo's names have not been perpetuated, and that is more do to the fact that we have no more escort carriers than anything else.
In addition Johnston, Hoel, and Samuel B. Roberts, along with Gambier Bay are favorite subjects in the modeling community. I think I have seen more renditions of these four ships than any others in their class. One of the things we try to do in our community, through our models, is to teach naval history, to those who enjoy seeing what we produce. I personally have all five including Saint Lo (formerly named Midway) in my collection, which also includes Fanshaw Bay, and Heerman, the ones that got away.
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