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Post by wild on Oct 27, 2012 2:22:41 GMT -5
Hi Ian
the whole of that area plus the rest of the middle east is full of nut case Islamic fundamentalists begging to go to paradise
A quick look at the beliefs of the RC church and the gun laws of the US would indicate that Western society is not far removed from that of our Islamic "friends".
Here in holy Ireland ,girls becoming pregnant out of marriage were locked away in what amounted to slavery in goolag convents.
In the 60s a little girl in the US required State Troopers to get her to school.And in liberal Britian 100 years ago women were forced fed in prison when prostesting for the vote.
We are all poor nuts,it is only time and space which seperates us.
Regards
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Post by benteen on Oct 27, 2012 10:01:55 GMT -5
A quick look at the beliefs of the RC church and the gun laws of the US would indicate that Western society is not far removed from that of our Islamic "friends". Regards Richard, All religions and faiths have some history they are not too proud of, but dont you think that comparing the Roman Catholic Church and American gun laws to Islamic terrorists is a bit of a stretch. Be Well Dan |
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Post by Dark Cloud on Oct 27, 2012 10:32:54 GMT -5
I do not. Whether Catholic, Mormon, Baptist/Protestant, Orthodox Jew, or Muslim the same characteristics of dumb ass patriarchy arise contrary to their own supposed beliefs. There is nothing in the Koran more blood thirsty or stupid than in the Bible, primarily because it and the Book of Mormon are rip offs of it, and how convenient that it seems women are subservient to and emotional slaves to men, who often get to live the life of Hefner and/or Caligula while blessed by God.
It's one of the many ways the story of Christ stands out, true or not. That stuff doesn't fly with him ('let he who is without....' and ' suffer the ......' solidify the point), and it revolts this atheist to hear modern preachers defend their pedophilia, their rapes, their general dementia with dubious interpretations of the Bible. And it's just wrong, anyway.
Let's recall, however, that wild's concerns are situational. He suggested the US was cowardly and irresponsible for not nuking the innocents of the Soviet Union while we had the bomb and they did not. He's perfectly willing to see innocents fry.
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Post by benteen on Oct 27, 2012 12:54:31 GMT -5
[quote author=darkcloud board=milk thread=4324 post=84227 time=1351351974. There is nothing in the Koran more blood thirsty or stupid than in the Bible, primarily because it and the Book of Mormon are rip offs of it, and it revolts this atheist to hear modern preachers defend their pedophilia, their rapes, their general dementia with dubious interpretations of the Bible. And it's just wrong, anyway.
[/quote]
Dark Cloud,
I am a little confused by your statement of rip-off. Are you saying the Bible is a rip-off of the Koran, or the Koran a rip-off of the Bible
What preachers do you know of that defend pedophilia and rape.
Be Well
Dan
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Post by quincannon on Oct 27, 2012 13:27:44 GMT -5
Dan: You really need to come to Colorado Springs. There have been at least three cases of preachers in this town that have covered and concealed pedophelia in the last five years. In every instance it was done to CYA some church or other. Defense takes many forms including trying to sweep it under the rug.
Rape is another issue that if it is not spoken about in society in general including from the pulpit, the overarching man's relationship with women, and the relegating of women to biblical second class existance, then the soul stealing crime of rape is winked at. Both are crimes against personhood and if they are condoned by neglect and indifference, they are in fact defended.
DC is spot on correct about this, and about the Koran and Book of Mormon being built upon (not necessarily ripped off) the Bible.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Oct 27, 2012 13:53:45 GMT -5
The Catholic Church has largely devoted itself to putting defense of itself and its priests above that of the innocent regarding the rape (often pedophilia) of those entrusted to their care. It's the priests and the Church that are the victims, you see.
They tried to blame it on the 60's and Hippies (that stopped when Irish church records back to the 1930's disabused them in aggregate with records here), the Devil (of course), and anything but the clearly effeminate and gay men running the church. What made JPII stand out is he was clearly straight, and women reacted to him as such.
In this country, Ireland, South American, Portugal, everywhere the correspondence exists in church records and played a large part in the billions of dollars the church has paid out. Cardinal Law should be in jail for his role in Boston, yet was protected by the Vatican.
The doofus Protestant refuse that periodically are convicted and sent up river doesn't seem as bad because they're sorta weird anyway, and not as far a fall. But they are just as bad. Every religion has them more or less as a mathematical proportion of the whole. What attracts them to the profession? Clearly they don't believe what they preach or they'd be terrified of hell. They need the weak and vulnerable seeking their protection. Just as Christ did, only for different reasons.
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Post by quincannon on Oct 27, 2012 14:17:36 GMT -5
Dan: If someone you knew robbed a 7-11 and killed the clerk, and subsequently you knowingly gave this person assistance after the fact, you in the eyes of the law are equally as guilty as if you had pulled the trigger yourself. What then is the difference in the priest that knowingly gets transfered from church to church by his superiors to aviod both prosecution and scandle. If one is guilty in the eyes of the law, then so must the other. Avoidance of lawful retribution is "defense" of the act.
The same is true of a teacher, baby sitter youth minister, and next door neighbor. It is made all the worse by persons in a position of trust betraying that trust by covering up the actions of another person of trust, because the idea of trust is more important in their eyes than the crime. Yesterday in this very town I live a police officer was convicted of 130 various counts of child molestation and child pornography. No it could not be a police officer. Police officers don't do this sort of thing. The hell they don't, and the way many of them get away with it is because they are police officers and they occupy a position of trust. Those that even think that way, in some non-criminal way defend these people. Do you realize only three of these cretins in a hundred ever get detected, and fewer are brought to justice. That speaks to child molesters and abusers The figures are derived from my teaching receritification this past summer. I have no figures at all on rape but it is an even worse problem. Anytime anyone does not report or speak out about injustice or criminal activity they both condone the act and defend it. You know very well why I feel so strongly about these two crimes, as we have discussed it privately.
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Post by benteen on Oct 27, 2012 14:23:10 GMT -5
Colonel/Dark Cloud
Yes gentlemen unfortunatly I am aware and agree with you to a degree. There are Catholic Priests who have abused children, and when found out rather than expose them and have them prosecuted, Bishops have used their clerical juisdiction and simply transferred them. I find this conduct as repulsive as you do.What I had the problem with is perhaps semantics, but when D/C said preachers defend this conduct, to me defend means support and I know of no preachers that support this aborent behavior.
Then again it is probably not his inability to convey a thought, but my inability to understand it.
Be Well
Dan
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Post by quincannon on Oct 27, 2012 14:44:11 GMT -5
Dan: Support is by doing nothing and ignoring it, or doing something that inhibits detection. It is a simple as that. You are hung up on words not spoken or given lip service from the pulpit. Actions speak much louder than words, and so does inaction. In addition if you think it is the exclusice domain of the Catholic Church because of relatively recent revelations, think again. It is in the domain of society at large. It always has been. It always will be. When WE, you, I, DC, and all the rest do not speak out about it, or do nothing when such actions are detected WE defend it.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Oct 27, 2012 17:41:04 GMT -5
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Post by quincannon on Oct 27, 2012 18:21:10 GMT -5
That about sums it up.
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Post by benteen on Oct 27, 2012 18:27:38 GMT -5
Dark Cloud,
Debating politics or religion can cause hard feelings, so I am going to drop it and instead focus on your best u-tube post .
"If it is a choice between the horse thing and the pants thing, go with the pants"
Be Well
Dan
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Post by wild on Oct 28, 2012 3:49:29 GMT -5
Dan
All religions and faiths have some history they are not too proud of, but dont you think that comparing the Roman Catholic Church and American gun laws to Islamic terrorists is a bit of a stretch.
and
Debating politics or religion can cause hard feelings, so I am going to drop it and instead focus on your best u-tube post
Debating something as insignificant as the LBH can bring on hard feelings,Sport likewise.It's just the competitive nature of the beast.
If you can maintain a reasonable decorum it is possible to have really good debates.The cut and thrust can bring out the best in the best of our philosophers,historians and rhetoricists [is there such a word?]Would you have some insipid touchy feely smooth talking drival?Whatcha here for Dan?
In cherry picking items from our societies I was attempting to show that the Middle East did not have a monoply of nutters.
I agree 100% with what your friends posted re RC Church and could draw a similarity with the US society and how it facilitates nutters equip themselves with assault rifles.
DC has posted if I recall correctly hail the bomb.So much for his concern for innocents.
Best regards
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Post by Dark Cloud on Oct 28, 2012 11:43:30 GMT -5
DC, as wild knows, was indicating how the bomb was appreciated by those who would not now have to invade Japan. It saved a lot of American lives. But I'm not like wild, who advocated - advocated - nuking the Soviets by surprise before they could retaliate. It's still up, and Markland and others remember.
As to 'innocent', if you go to war you kill innocents even without intent. But Japanese civilians enjoyed movies up to and through our participation in the war where newsreels before the main feature showed their heroic soldiers - who called the Chinese 'chinks' - beheading men, women and children or using them for bayonet practice. The audiences cheered. They also had to stand up when the emperor was on the screen.
A single young girl with napalm burns in Vietnam did not get a similar reaction here. That's a difference.
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Post by wild on Oct 28, 2012 12:04:03 GMT -5
As to 'innocent', if you go to war you kill innocents even without intent
Let me state my position on innocents.
If you wage a war of aggression your innocents are your responsibility.
Thus I have no problem with Dresden,Nagasaki,Hamburg,Hiroshima.
The USSR under Stalin waged a war of aggression against Poland an ally by treaty of
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