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Post by Yan Taylor on Oct 23, 2012 3:33:32 GMT -6
I must say Pellethie, so do have a strange way of making friends on this board, Fred has asked you a question concerning your view on the Reno retreat and you go on the defensive, how do you know that Plainsman has not been welcomed via a PM, I myself have wrote to him twice via PM, so how do you know that no one else has.
Ian.
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Post by wild on Oct 23, 2012 6:44:42 GMT -6
I would also tell you there are no bigots on this board. Good men like Dark Cloud and Quincannon chase them away rather quickly.
Pellethie
Wellcome.
Take no notice of the "goodguys"it is all relative.
The truest observation ever posted here was by his Dark Eminence when he said the board was really the girls bus.Depends on who you are sitting beside.For example the three amigos here hated each others guts with a vengence.Now they are the closest of chums.Sure wouldn't it be great if we could just publish PMs.Maybe one day each year could be PM day?
The dynamic which powers the board is cannibalism.For the moment your it.
Enjoy the attention,regards.
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Post by quincannon on Oct 23, 2012 7:04:36 GMT -6
Pellethie: I am mustering the Marine Guard detachment and Bosun's side party to pipe you over the side as we speak. The ships band is also mustered on the quarterdeck to play appropriate martial music for your arrival. In the meantime get some substance and stop feeling sorry for yourself like some three year old kid who lost his lollypop to a little girl. You put something forth on this board of substance and you will have all the welcome you wish to ever have, and most probably more than you ever bargined for. That is the test. See if you can get by Fred, DC, Ian, AZ, and the rest. There are no free passes here.
So far the only thing you have said about the battle is that you thought Custer was an overconfident fool. OK, those words came easy and are shared by quite a few here. Others think that accessment is completely wrong. You said it. Back it up, with facts salted with your opinion as to why that was, based upon the known facts.
What do you think of Reno's retreat? Why did Custer seperate into two squadrons? Access the impact of modern repeating firearms in the hands of the hostiles. How big was the indian confederation? What was the total land area of the combined villages? What was the most likely direction of escape, had Custer's attack been carried off successfully? What caused Company C to move forward to Finckle-Finnerty Ridge? Was this the tipping point of battle? Did Custer reach Ford D? If so what impact did it have? Why was 1LT Smith found on Last Stand Hill, and away from his command? What is the maximum effective range of the Springfield Carbine, and why was this a factor?
Welcoming has more to do with what you bring of yourself here, and not just the act of showing up. There are no brass bands on the road to earned respect.
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Post by quincannon on Oct 23, 2012 7:13:37 GMT -6
Richard: Being from the Emerald Isle you are probably not familiar with the finer points of Abraham Lincoln. One thing he said rings true through the ages "The best way to defeat your enemies is to make him your friend" You really ought to try it sometime. I mean really try it, and not give periodic lip service to it one moment and fall off the bar stool the next.
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Post by fred on Oct 23, 2012 7:55:05 GMT -6
You mean the fellow that no one thought about welcoming to this board aside from me ? Pellethie, give it up, will you please? You have no idea what you are talking about with Plainsman. And if he didn't receive a "formal welcome," it was more than made up for with the series of posts we all put up together. For your information, not only has Ian PMed with him, Plainsman and I have had a series of personal e-mails. The man is a scholar in the truest sense, so your outrage over what you may consider a lack of manners is misplaced. I notice you have been welcomed here by some-- I extend my welcome, as well-- so I am still at a loss to understand all this vituperation. If you feel slighted because you are an American Indian, I think you may be wearing that badge a little too high or swinging it at too many heads. No one here cares... as far as I know... and no one here would denigrate your ancestry. In fact, people like myself defend it and abhor what your people have gone through. But there's not much I can do about it now, other than to treat you like a man. So why don't we bury the hatchet, bury the bayonet, and come out shaking hands? And Wild, that comment is bull and you know it. DC and I had issues in the beginning; QC and he have had it out a couple of times, but neither of those incidents makes enemies. If you knew about DC's decency behind the public forums, you would be loath to say what you did. You need a new mirror, my friend. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by justvisiting on Oct 23, 2012 18:30:36 GMT -6
Fred, he mentioned it in passing I think two or three times. One of those was Custer's mental deficiency which I am eager to hear more about.
However, if someone comes to a message board and their feelings are hurt because there were no wholesale huzzas that he/she showed and that person's feelings are hurt; tough crap.
Billy
P.S. I would love to discuss the eastern wars but your attitude is such that I'm hesitant.
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Post by justvisiting on Oct 23, 2012 19:25:10 GMT -6
Being a kid over here in Blighty, we only ever seen American Indians on TV (not many American Indians around Widnes in the 1960s), this could range from Tonto (good guy) to Magua (bad guy). Ian. There's still a lot of us remaining and not all are plains people. Tonto, Magua ? Some one else's conceptions of NDN people. My opinion is that Tonto was an intelligent man who was loyal and honorable. Whether that is your opinion is another thing entirely. Magua was the villain but more than likely there were numerous Indians who shared his feelings. One thing that you don't mention is the number of honorable Indians who suffered at white hands during the frontier wars: the Moravian Massacre by Pennsylvanian volunteers; the massacre of Chief Logan's family and tribe and the murder of the peace emissaries to Ft. Wheeling. Billy |
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Post by fred on Oct 23, 2012 19:29:51 GMT -6
... the Moravian Massacre by Pennsylvanian volunteers; the massacre of Chief Logan's family and tribe and the murder of the peace emissaries to Ft. Wheeling. Testing, testing... 1, 2, 3... testing... this is a test. Damn Internet doesn't seem to be working properly... must be my router... Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by fred on Oct 23, 2012 19:38:56 GMT -6
One of those was Custer's mental deficiency which I am eager to hear more about. Yes... I would be interested in hearing more of this... especially the sources and back-up involved. I have found nothing that makes me think this would be true; but I am always open to another's opinions, always open to be corrected... Yes... this isn't exactly a cotillion after all. I don't recall ever being welcomed by anyone other than Merkel. Of course, there have been the "welcome back"s, but you first have to leave to get those. How are you doing, Billy? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope you are well. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by wild on Oct 24, 2012 2:11:23 GMT -6
Hi Fred
If you knew about DC's decency behind the public forums, you would be loath to say what you did. You need a new mirror, my friend.I can only respond to the on board persona presented.Behind the scenes is entirely your own affair.Like your good self Fred we are all decent men off board.
Regards
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Post by pellethie on Oct 24, 2012 2:48:01 GMT -6
You want to know what I think about Reno’s retreat ? LOL!
Probably the smartest move he could of made on that summer day. Reno, Benteen and the others who survived were fortunate not to end up as bones and stains in the dirt. They were lucky to be on Custer’s sh!t list as he wanted all the glory of his imagined victory to be heaped upon him, kin and favorites. Reno and the others who woke up on June 26, 1876 did so because these men chose not to jump into a hole they could never climb out of, having seen how deep it was.
What kind words would you have me say to describe men of an outfit organized for the sole purpose of killing Indians, or the butcher of the Washita ?
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Post by pellethie on Oct 24, 2012 3:00:58 GMT -6
I would also tell you there are no bigots on this board. Good men like Dark Cloud and Quincannon chase them away rather quickly.Pellethie Wellcome. Take no notice of the "goodguys"it is all relative. The truest observation ever posted here was by his Dark Eminence when he said the board was really the girls bus.Depends on who you are sitting beside.For example the three amigos here hated each others guts with a vengence.Now they are the closest of chums.Sure wouldn't it be great if we could just publish PMs.Maybe one day each year could be PM day? The dynamic which powers the board is cannibalism.For the moment your it. Enjoy the attention,regards. Greetings Wild. LOL! I've been around the fora long enough to know what goes on. Some people flower when they think there's a conflict on hand. I would walk away a day before being chased off. |
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Post by Yan Taylor on Oct 24, 2012 3:15:12 GMT -6
Pellethie, good morning to you; I think the answer you have just given is a valid one, but not what was asked concerning the Reno retreat. Leaving all the moral stuff aside and looking at the military aspect, do you think that Reno disobeyed orders, do you think that Reno was right to form skirmish lines, should these lines have been held longer, should they have gone into the timber, could they have stayed in the timber longer, was the way he handled the retreat wrong (should he have made sure all of his men knew about this move) and finally the way his men were roughly handled on their way back to the bluffs (did he leave it too late to break cover).
These are some of the questions that we have been asking about for a number of years, and I think this is what Fred alluding to when he asked you about the Reno retreat. Just wanted to know your view on it that’s all.
Ian.
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Post by fred on Oct 24, 2012 13:49:33 GMT -6
What kind words would you have me say to describe men of an outfit organized for the sole purpose of killing Indians...? Well... your post has told me nothing and contributes even less. No one asked for a racial diatribe. We get enough of that sort of snot from today's current Tea Party, though you, at least, don't try to disguise your hate. Whether you know it or not, this country was founded by narrow-minded bigots running away from the same bigotry they decided to foist on others. They disliked the Anglicans, then tried their hatred on Catholics, then decided Indians made better targets. Blacks became the favorite whipping boys, and when that fell out of favor, it was the Irish, then the Italians, and currently, Hispanics, all the old targets now the new majority. And when I hear some of the local idiots railing about this current "affirmative-action president," I know very well racism is alive and well in ultra-liberal northern Westchester County, New York. Get over it! All we can do is deal with it and fight it. But you're not going to do it on these boards. It is barely extant here, although I thought I may have just caught a slight whiff recently. What you have going for you is a society unlike any other in the world... and that is a society, in general, that will not tolerate bigotry and racism, and while the cures come slowly, they do come. Now... to address your quote above, you are full of it! Since when is or was the American military "organized for the sole purpose of killing Indians"? I seem to remember guys in red coats and some others wearing gray. Their face color didn't matter then, though if memory serves me correctly, it matched the color of those wearing blue. George Custer was little different from any other military man with orders. And please, before you launch into some red-eyed diatribe about "orders," let us not forget the Indians visited on the white man-- innocent and otherwise--as good as they got. This wasn't all one-sided. So despite your premature disparagement of "Tonto," he was, as QC said, the model of a decent, intelligent, kind, and strong red man. Or would you have preferred to see the Lone Ranger with a side-kick speaking Yiddish? So, my friend, your red race got the dirty end of the stick. Was it worse than Obama's? Now how about talking the Little Big Horn, eh? And I mean other than bloody dirt and stark white bones. Do you have anything to contribute here, or are you just another pretty bird? Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by quincannon on Oct 24, 2012 17:05:48 GMT -6
Well Fred, it was Billy who stood up for Tonto. Tonto though is a surrogate for honorable men. Notice I did not say honorable red men, or black men, or yellow men, or white men, or tan men. I said men. Bigotry and possessing personal honor are mutually exclusive. Good on him and good on you
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