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Post by quincannon on Apr 27, 2012 19:14:57 GMT -6
What thread is Gerry's picture on?
William: I am not sure that Benteen disobeyed orders here in not consolidating with the packs and bringing them forward. A while back on this thread I suggested a course of action. Now by virtue of hindsight we see what danger Benteen's actions placed both his command and the packs in. It would have been catistrophic, and I agree in principle with your outline. I disagree about disobedience though. Those orders were loose enough to be interpreted several ways. Benteen made a decision on how to execute them. What might have been, thankfully did not happen.
Richard: Yes you are correct. I substituted what I might have done. Each leader is different. Each brings different things to the table of decision. I agree with Montrose going blindly by Reno and into the Blue would be an act of sheer lunacy. I further agree with him, in a position he has often stated on these boards that the primary cause of defeat at LBH was placing two major terrain features between Custer and the rest of the regiment, and state once again for the record that sometimes, as Montrose seems to agree with based upion his Keogh squadron comment above, you must content yourself with several successive bites at the apple,rather than choking on the apple in an attempt at one bite consumption.
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Post by wild on Apr 28, 2012 1:31:54 GMT -6
Colonel et al I agree with Montrose going blindly by Reno and into the Blue would be an act of sheer lunacy. There are two issues here. Advancing blindly. Going by Reno. Which issue has the veto on advancing,blindly or Reno? Is a defeated unit reason for stopping an offensive? What action did Benteen take to aquaint himself with the situation /deal with blindly? Best Wishes
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 28, 2012 7:48:53 GMT -6
Monsur Paul Regret, no I think I got that one wrong sorry too many Wayne films on TV at the moment.
The note that Cook wrote to Benteen said bring packs, now if Benteen had to bring some not all of these beasts, it would take him quite a while to get over to MTC/Calhoun Ridge or wherever Custer wanted to meet him, so when Custer knew that Reno had made his assault on the village, he must have had an idea that Benteen would not be coming over the hills to the south to re-join the Regiment for a good while due to the distance and the slow moving packs, so when he left Keogh as a beacon, he must have thought that Keogh would have a long wait, if he did stop in MTC for ½ hour or so, it must have been to wait till Benteen could get a full head of steam and cover the ground between them, but taking into the fact of: first waiting for the packs, then moving the packs to Calhoun Hill would have taken Benteen all afternoon.
The reason I joined this board was for stimulation, relaxation, pleasant association, and interesting conversation, sorry I am in Wayne mode again. Ian.
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Post by markland on Apr 28, 2012 8:29:41 GMT -6
Billy, Since we have established that Fred is a four lettered word: Fred you. Respectfully, William I like that!!!! So, is "Fred You" our official battle cry now? Billy
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Post by fred on Apr 28, 2012 8:34:12 GMT -6
So, is "Fred You" our official battle cry now Ah-h!, my friends! I have a host of friends!Still, none of you bums have ever been able to tell me from what movie that line comes from. {Is that English? DC... where are you? Help!!} So, anyway, "'Fred' you all!!!!!" Best wishes, Someone Other Than 'Fred.'
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Post by yankee on Apr 28, 2012 10:50:12 GMT -6
Fred,
Not to intrude but is that line from the movie El Dorado with Jim Caan and John Wayne? I believe Jim Caan says it.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 28, 2012 12:22:06 GMT -6
Ian: Paul Regret from the Comancheros. Don't waste your time on the movies. Read Wellman's The Comancheros, The Iron Mistress, and Magnificent Destiny. All are spendid.
I think it was El Dorado, which was a remake of what, and in it who was the young gunfighter, and what was the theme music? No the answer is not Now Voyager, Betty Davis, and Blue Birds Over The White Cliffs of Dover. Any takers on who made the latter popular and what was her nickname?
Richard: The answer to your question about a defeated unit is, drum roll please - It Depends.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 28, 2012 12:28:22 GMT -6
I have seen that film recently, and all I can remember Caan saying is a poem about El Dorado, was there a trilogy of movies based around the same theme? Directed by Howard Hawks.
El Dorado Rio Lobo Rio Bravo
Similar to the Cavalry trilogy directed by John Ford.
She wore a yellow ribbon Fort Apache Rio Grande
All good things come in threes
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 28, 2012 12:50:11 GMT -6
Your close Ian.
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Post by fred on Apr 28, 2012 12:51:53 GMT -6
Not to intrude but is that line from the movie El Dorado with Jim Caan and John Wayne? I believe Jim Caan says it. Yankee, Please... don't ever feel you are intruding. Certainly not with me. I welcome your comments and whatever you have to say. And yes, finally... someone who knows the movies!!!! I have been slinging that phrase around for several years and you are the only person who knew it. One of my favorite Westerns... and along with Cary Grant, Peter O'Toole, and one or two others, my all-time favorite people: John Wayne. Great job, Yank!! Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by fred on Apr 28, 2012 13:02:22 GMT -6
Ian: Paul Regret from the Comancheros. Don't waste your time on the movies. Monsieur Paul Regret, aka, Stuart Whitman, a handsome and popular actor from the 50's and 60's. I always liked him, and as far as I know he is still alive. El Dorado is the virtual clone of Rio Bravo. I liked El Dorado better, personally. Rio Bravo had Dean Martin as the drunken sheriff and Ricky Nelson as the young gunslinger. Plus, I believe Angie Dickinson was the moll, and I have never been big on her. In addition, Walter Brennan played the deputy, and I have never been big on him, either. In El Dorado, Ed Asner played the bad guy, and Christopher George the bad gun-fighter for hire. I have always liked both, particularly Christopher George. Robert Mitchum played the drunken sheriff, and Yankee is right, James Caan played the young gun... or knife-thrower. John Wayne's squeeze was also nice (I forget her name), and the old geezer who was Mitchum's deputy (and whose name also escapes me) stole the show. To me, a much better movie, all the way around. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by fred on Apr 28, 2012 13:12:34 GMT -6
I have seen that film recently, and all I can remember Caan saying is a poem about El Dorado.... That poem was written by Edgar Allen Poe and is one of my favorites. I guess my friend Dark Cloud will roll his eyes over that, and it probably points out how shallow I am when it comes to some of these things, but I still love it. Gaily bedight, A gallant knight, In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of Eldorado. But he grew old— This knight so bold— And o’er his heart a shadow Fell as he found No spot of ground That looked like Eldorado And as his strength Failed him at length, He met a pilgrim shadow— “Shadow,” said he, “Where can it be— This land of Eldorado?” “Over the Mountains Of the Moon, Down the Valley of the Shadow, Ride, boldly ride,” The shade replied, — “If you seek for Eldorado!” Great poem, even though the spacings are all messed up. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 28, 2012 13:20:08 GMT -6
Well Fred, it seems you know your movies too
El Dorado was a remake of Rio Bravo. In it the young gunfighter was played by Eric Hilliard Nelson. The music was by Demitri Tiomkin - El Deguello (The Throatcutting - significant of no quarter and your in a heap of trouble buddy).
An finally Blue Birds Over The White Cliffs of Dover was made popular by Dame Vera Lynn DEB, OBE, OStJ often refered to as "The Sweetheart of the RAF" - which is just the thing to go along with Ian's Mark XIV Spitfire.
When one thinks of the songs of World War II the four that will immediately come to mind for most are Moonlight Serenade - Blue Birds Over The White Cliffs of Dover - We'll Meet Again and Lily Marlene, and Lynn had two of them. Not bad.
Angie Dickenson was the Wayne love interest in Rio Bravo
Arthur Hunnicutt (by the way the second best David Crockett on film) was Mitchum's deputy in El Dorado.
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Post by fred on Apr 28, 2012 14:33:09 GMT -6
Aka, Ricky Nelson, singer, songwriter and teenie-bopper heart-throb. "Lily Marlene"... still love that song and it is amazing because everyone associates it with the Germans-- who basically adopted it as their own-- when in reality, I believe Marlene Dietrich started it off for the Allies. (God, I loved Dietrich!! What a sensuous woman!!!!!) Never cared much for her. I can never remember his name! He was great, though. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by quincannon on Apr 28, 2012 14:55:19 GMT -6
No Fred. It was introduced by the Germans and was a song originally from a cabaret I think from the 1920's that was at the time not very popular. Anyway the song would be broadcast to the Afrika Korps/Panzer Armee Afrika I seem to remember at midnight every night from a Armed Forces radio setup in I believe Rumania. The tale is told that the war would stop even for a moment as both sides tuned in to hear it. Dietrich picked it up later and made it popular with US Forces. It is pure smaltz, but sometimes smaltz is just what is required. Same thing with a song from your days in Germany "Seeman" Sailor, sung in German with a English voiceover in part. I had to hunt high and low to get my copy and finally found it on an CD entitled One Hit Wonders.
I believe the women who sang Lily Marlene was Lale Andersen.
Dietrich - So did James Gavin.
So in the imortal words of Lyle Lovett "Oooooh give back my heart your fickle redneck woman" - Jumping Jim was a scamp
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