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Post by WY Man on May 24, 2009 0:29:22 GMT -6
Memorial Day Weekend, 2009 This is where I was earlier this afternoon...    Notice White Swan's marker in the foreground.    Cheyenne warrior marker for Lame White Man, killed at the Little Big Horn, June 25, 1876. The Cheyenne Indians originally lay piles of native stone to mark the sites of the warriors killed in the battle, such as can be seen in the foreground of this photo. When I first visited this marker, several years ago, there was a little mound of stones, with the corners of some of the stones visable, sticking out of the ground. It appears as if somebody has recently placed these on the ground, above the surface.    |
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Post by jinlian on May 24, 2009 4:43:58 GMT -6
Memorial Day Weekend, 2009 This is where I was earlier this afternoon... Notice White Swan's marker in the foreground. Wonderful pictures, thank you. I've particularly enjoyed the one above - I don't know why, some books report an urban (shall we say "battlefield") legend stating that White Swan's grave was unmarked or even that his burial site was unknown... Thanks again, J. |
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Post by Montana Bab on May 24, 2009 13:53:39 GMT -6
A wonderful tribiute, Wy Man.........Thank you for sharing.
Montana Bab
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Post by WY Man on May 24, 2009 16:08:14 GMT -6
Just a couple more... Keogh's Line (Keogh/Crazy Horse)   |
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Post by Montana Bab on May 24, 2009 16:41:47 GMT -6
Wy Man,
If I could impose a request....the next time you are on the battlefield, could you stand on the OTHER SIDE of the monument and take a photo of the lay of the land on the other side of that hill? I don't remember ever seeing one from that vantage point, and I'd love to see one. Those who can make it to the battlefield are so lucky to get a feel for the lay of the land.
Pictures help, but only so much.
Thanks...........Bab
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 24, 2009 16:50:16 GMT -6
For those who've never subjected themselves to reimagining LSH according to testimony and early photos, that last photo (those are very good, and thank you) makes it easy. There are 54 markers, not all visible here.
About ten are superfluous, since there is about 20% too many on the field, reflecting people who died elsewhere. Take out the ten that are on the very right, including the two down close to the corner.
Now imagine the munument gone and take about six for the Custer group and place them up there.
Boston and Reed were found hundreds of yards/feet away, so remove two more.
Then move a number up to represent the wooden stakes visible in the early photos and put them along the road heading towards Keogh well outside the current fence.
Now, imagine the remaining spread about. Also, recall that Boston and Reed were thought of, by some, as 'on' the hill, although apparently down where the Indian marker is peeking over the trees, maybe even further because the lens is hard to judge and the distances recalled varied, but much further down than the stones indicated. So others may have been as well, since the dead horses would give the impression of more substance.
Without the fence, without the mounument that gives a fortress like feel, and with far fewer stones, and those remaining spread farther apart, it surely does not feel like a huddled defense, does it? And the clump of braid 'leading the charge' (just like Reno....) away from the village (they're the bodies furthest from it) looks suspiciously like what may have happened if they summited that ridge together and were suprised and shot by those NA's on the other side.
And again: why is the fence configured as it is? Why is an actual grave unfenced, and inaccurate and notional markers are fenced? It's ironic, if people were concerned about White Swan's grave status, that if the story about Custer's first burial and the story about the exhumation are correct, he's probably mostly there under where he actually fell which virtually nobody else can claim.
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Post by WY Man on May 24, 2009 18:17:38 GMT -6
Wy Man, If I could impose a request....the next time you are on the battlefield, could you stand on the OTHER SIDE of the monument and take a photo of the lay of the land on the other side of that hill? I don't remember ever seeing one from that vantage point, and I'd love to see one. Those who can make it to the battlefield are so lucky to get a feel for the lay of the land. Pictures help, but only so much. Thanks...........Bab I'll gladly do that for you, Bab. However, I think that the 2nd photo up, (Keogh's Line) answers your request pretty well. It was taken just up the road from the monument a little ways, and in the direction laterally east-southeast from the road. If I understand you correctly, you want me to take a photo looking east-northeast from the road, behind the monument? The view from that angle is downhill to Hwy. 212. You can see part of 212 on the top left hill in my Keogh Line photo. |
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Post by Montana Bab on May 24, 2009 23:26:47 GMT -6
Darkcloud,
I found a picture of the battlehill taken in 1898 before the battlefield became a National Park. At that time Custer's marker was a wooden cross. And I find the truth in what you posted because the markers on this picture do not concur with what is there today.
It seems to me though, that with the initial haphazard burials, and then the further reburials, I would think the present placements of the markers couldn't possibly be accurate. I would post the picture, but it is such a dim version, I don't believe it would show up. It does seem to verify what you posted.
BTW, you sure have a good eye. I had to look hard to spot the NA marker "peeking over the trees".
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Post by Montana Bab on May 24, 2009 23:55:45 GMT -6
[quote author=wyman . If I understand you correctly, you want me to take a photo looking east-northeast from the road, behind the monument? The view from that angle is downhill to Hwy. 212. You can see part of 212 on the top left hill in my Keogh Line photo.[/quote]
Wy Man,
I didn't explain it very well, I'm afraid. I actually wanted the picture taken of the opposite direction of which you spoke, meaning.....west (I think) or the direction of what was the Indian village. As far as I know, I've never seen a picture taken of that direction while standing at the monument.
As you can tell, I'm not worth the hoot at directions!
Thanks..........Bab
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Reddirt
Full Member
Life is But a Dream...
Posts: 208
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Post by Reddirt on May 25, 2009 8:17:49 GMT -6
Wy Man, bless you for sharing these photos.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 25, 2009 8:54:55 GMT -6
Where Custer Fell has, I think, all the photos referenced. The markers at one time - the wooden ones - reflected a burial, not at all where someone fell or was even necessarily found. The artistic composition of the markers today clearly is meant to reinforce the Last Stand image, just as Camp thought the markers by Deep Ravine were meant to imply a firing line, but the testimony and accounts of those there rather demolish these contortions.
Many societies use the stones placed on the death or burial site ritual, Jews most famously. But that's the sort of thing that can begin at any time, and I don't recall in the centuries previous any of those journalists who were fascinated by the tribes mentioning this, but I'm not well read in that area. Wonder if it's modern, learned, and not traditional.
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Post by WY Man on May 25, 2009 22:51:21 GMT -6
Wy Man, I actually wanted the picture taken of the opposite direction of which you spoke, meaning.....west (I think) or the direction of what was the Indian village. As far as I know, I've never seen a picture taken of that direction while standing at the monument. Thanks..........Bab No problem Bab. I'll be out there again soon. -Scott |
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Post by Montana Bab on May 25, 2009 23:02:04 GMT -6
[ No problem Bab. I'll be out there again soon. -Scott Thanks so much, Scott, I definately appreciate it! Your photos are just fabulous. What camera do you use? Very professional! Kathlene |
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Post by biggordie on May 26, 2009 16:31:39 GMT -6
Seeing thse makes me that much more excited about taking my trip. Thank you.
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Post by Montana Bab on May 26, 2009 16:57:03 GMT -6
Seeing thse makes me that much more excited about taking my trip. Thank you. Tori, You're certainly in for a real treat. I hope it is as green in June as it is in the pics. And did you notice how cracked the earth is in the pic of the stone for Lame White Man? Dry and hot! I wish that I were able to make the trip again, but I have been away from the factory too long.......(old)! Bab |
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