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Post by herosrest on Sept 8, 2009 12:10:44 GMT -6
Being surrounded is a weird place. Right wing held, for a while...... the 'book' says so.
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jody
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by jody on Sept 10, 2009 12:52:52 GMT -6
This from "Mountain Scouting - A handbook for officers and soldiers on the frontiers", 1881, by Edward S. Farrow, West Point Instructor and former leader of Indian scouts in the Northwest. It is in the Chapter titled "Useful information in Post and Field, page 85:
At 30 yds A person with ordinary sight can distinguish the white of the eye. At 80 yds the eyes can be seen At 100 yds the body and movements of same can be seen and the buttons counted At 200 yds the buttons look like faint stripes At 300 yds the features of the face are distinguishable At 400 yds the face appears like a dot, and the movements of the legs and arms are distinct At 500 yds the head is visible At 600 yds individual movements are observed, but details disappear At 700 yds the movements of the legs and arms become indistinct At 800 yds individual movements cannot be observed At 900 yds the head appears like a dot At 1,000 yds a line of men appear like a broad ragged line At 2,000 yds infantry presents a thick line with a bright one above it, cavalry a thicker one with an uneven top and a single man or horse looks like a dot
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Post by herosrest on Sept 13, 2009 5:08:59 GMT -6
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Post by tonypag7 on Sept 17, 2009 13:05:52 GMT -6
On page 6 I propounded two different scenarios on what Custer could have done after reaching MTC (defending his flank going to LSH, and attempting attackes at two different fords). I do respect the opinions of everyone on this sight. So, can a few of you comment on those two theories. I would appreciate your comments.
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Post by clw on Sept 17, 2009 13:14:13 GMT -6
We've been discussing pretty much that over on the Cemetary Ridge thread. Come over and join in.
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Post by bc on Sept 17, 2009 20:36:19 GMT -6
On page 6 I propounded two different scenarios on what Custer could have done after reaching MTC (defending his flank going to LSH, and attempting attackes at two different fords). I do respect the opinions of everyone on this sight. So, can a few of you comment on those two theories. I would appreciate your comments. Tony, you want comments, I'll give it a shot. First, it's a free country you can believe any theory you want. I won't signal my comments to you with 2 volleys as it doesn't make sense to use volleys as a signal since someone not within sight of the volliers won't know if it is a signal or live shooting, it would be as waste of ammo to use volleys as a signal, and finally they had trumpeters and messengers and Yates was well within trumpet range. (and don't anyone try to say that they avoided using trumpeters cause of the noise letting the NAs know where they are but instead used volleys, sorry, it doesn't add up) Regarding your first theory, that Yates was sent to recon ford B and was recalled with fired signal volleys as the NAs poured over Weir point. Then they all fell back to Luce, etc and moved to the points of death. I explained my opinion of your signal volleys above and I think there is enough evidence of some significant firing around ford B, whether or not anyone crossed or attempted to cross, to show that Yates didn't just recon and ride away. Regarding your second theory of a repeat of his 2 ford attack by his blue belly cavalry against the johnny rebs, in my humble opinion, is quite plausible and probably and where I lean. I'd like to see and here more about any artifacts found around the Willy Bends place and study the Cheyenne accounts further but that is what they tend to say. I wouldn't rule out that the 2nd part of the 2 ford attack could be at Herosrest Ford C instead of the iron railroad bridge over the river west of LSH at the end of the south skirmish line(ford D). It's an interesting theory and accounts for trooper placements in a different way than what we traditional believe. I'm waiting for him to get into it but last I saw he was hung up on that LSH photo. Anyway, as I understand it, he has Custer et. al riding down to ford B/MTF and then moving on down the river following the river itself to another ford in the deep ravine area and north of the Cheyenne camps. They are repulsed on one side or the other of the the lbh and some of the repulsed retreating troopers go up greasy grass ridge on the south side of deep ravine and end up at Findlay and Calhoun where the reserve is. The other repulsed retreating troopers go up Deep Ravine and the south skirmish line on the north side of deep ravine and end up at LSH. In the meantime Gall goes up Deep Coulee and/or maybe over greasy grass ridge and circles around behind Calhound and battle ridge where he encircles all the remaining troops and mops up Keogh et. al. I may not Herosrest theory exactly as he believes but he can chime in and began explaining it on a battle thread somewhere. The caveat with this theory is that there is no good way to get to anywhere between ford B and Ford D except along the river or go up to Findlay and along battle ridge. Too many deep ravines between Deep coulee and the south skirmish line/cemetery ravine for cavalry to go any other way. bc
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Post by zekesgirl on Sept 18, 2009 12:57:48 GMT -6
BC, do you think the split in the columns from MTF could have been caused by the NDNs or the lay of the land or even a combination of both? I go with both and Keogh got swarmed while Cuister was looking around up north.
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