Post by shan on Aug 20, 2008 8:51:09 GMT -6
Some time back I asked why it is that most people who post on these boards choose to dwell on what happened to Reno and Benteen, and all matters pertaining to their part of the fight, but rarely, if ever, put forward any theories as to what might have occurred on the Custer part of the field.
Apart from Elizabeth I think, no one took up the challenge or even choose to comment on the question. So, knowing that to speculate, or even to dare to advance theories without any evidence to back them up will bring the wrath of darkcloud on my head, and in the light of no one taking up the challenge, I suppose it's down to me to dip my toe in the water and give it a go myself.
The first thing to say is that there is so much to try and unpick it's hard to know where to begin, but given that most people seem to be in agreement as to where Custer was, and what he was up to as far as MTC and the dispatch of Martin with that final message, I think Luce ridge is as good a place to begin as anywhere.
I believe that Custer, having moved into MTC, probably from Cedar coulee, and having then dispatched Martin, moved down the coulee a little ways before riding up out of it onto the lower slopes of Luce, where he paused to get his first real view of the village. Time, {I'm using Greys as that is the one I am familiar with,} 3.40
Whilst there are those that think he saw all he needed from either Weir Point or Sharpshooter ridge, I have to say that I disagree. Yes he would have seen some of the village, and realised that it was bigger than he had thought, but he wouldn't have gleaned as much information as he would be able to from the slopes of Luce ridge.
In many ways what he saw may have come as a bit of a shock to him, one things for sure, this couldn't have been a couple of minutes pause as there would have been a hell of lot for him to take in. For a start it was a much bigger camp than he had either imagined or expected, and then there was the fact that there were far more warriors around than he had initially thought, whatsmore, these warriors, far from running as had been feared, were seen to be rushing off in large numbers to counter attack Reno's puny force. As if all that wasn't bad enough, he would have also been able to see that the non-coms; again far more than he had thought he would have to deal with, were heading North towards the horse herd and, horror of horrors, possible flight taking the herd with them. In other words he was presented with a fast moving situation which required that he do something quickly before it got even further out of control.
So far so obvious. So what did he do? Well, like many others I then believe he then sent 2 companies down towards the ford, A to check it's viability should he wish to use it at some point, and B to draw some of the indians to him and away from Reno, thus, by relieving the pressure somewhat, allowing him, {Reno,} to press forward with his attack. Given the general level of noise, he would have been well away that there was a very heavy engagement going on somewhere out of sight behind Bouyers bluffs, but I think that he would also have guessed; if he had not already been told by Bouyer, that Reno's attack had stuttered to a halt, if only by the fact that he could see that the warriors were still streaming forward towards Reno's force, and not falling back from it under pressure as he would have hoped.
Given that, Custer may have reasoned that by moving North across the high ridges, he could achieve two things, firstly by temporarily keeping some distance between himself and any warriors who might come out to engage him, he could utilize his firepower to its best effect, and secondly, by moving further away from Reno, he would hopefully split the warrior force, thus stopping it from concentrating-it's full weight on one component of his command.
It was probably not what he would have wished for, after all the high ridges were definitely not the sort of ground best suited for cavalry to be operating on, he would I'm sure, have much preferred to get down on the valley floor, but for the moment, needs must. Time 3.45
What evidence there is indicates that initially at least, he moved across Luce; doing a good deal of firing, and then up onto Nye Cartwright, where again he did a good deal of firing. At some point during this journey Wolf Tooth and Big Foots fifty or so warriors attempted to disrupt the move, but I don't believe that they were all that well armed, and having buzzed around his flanks like some irritating wasps, they almost certainly withdrew to the east of him, from where they continued to shadow his force, taking care to keep well out of range of his guns.
Meanwhile, the force down at the ford had accomplished most of what they had wanted to do, but having only been opposed by a small number of warriors initially, growing numbers now meant that it was probably prudent to withdraw. In fact I believe that had always been the plan, and that having signaled them to do just that, Custer then had those two volleys delivered to show the indians who was still boss around here. Time 4.20-4.25
By now it must have been apparent to Custer that Reno's attack had not only stuttered to a halt, but had failed to the point where he must have been driven off. Anybody that cared to train their glasses back towards Weir Point would have seen various groups of Indians milling around up there, Indians who, far from being under pressure, were now cheekily moving towards their flanks. Whatsmore, looking back down towards the ford, they may have seen the first sign of returning warriors down on the valley floor, warriors who, just like those up on Weir, were obviously not fleeing as had been hoped, but were, in some cases at least, actually crossing the river to engage them.
In spite of that, Custer at least seems to felt that everything was still under control; although I suspect he was pretty much alone in thinking that at this point. Whatsmore, far from deciding to move back and re-join the other parts of his command as most of us armchair experts blessed with hindsight would have imagined, he then decides to split his small force up yet again, and move even further North, probably in search of yet another ford, one much closer to the non-coms.
As he rides off, probably leaving Keogh a free rein to attack across MTF should the opportunity or the need arise, I to, sensing that this could well turn into a novel, will leave it there for now; how many times have other posters come onto the board thinking that they will just write a pungent line or two and then sign off, only to find themselves still sat there an hour or so, and dozens of paragraphs later, still, God help us, at it?
Shan
Apart from Elizabeth I think, no one took up the challenge or even choose to comment on the question. So, knowing that to speculate, or even to dare to advance theories without any evidence to back them up will bring the wrath of darkcloud on my head, and in the light of no one taking up the challenge, I suppose it's down to me to dip my toe in the water and give it a go myself.
The first thing to say is that there is so much to try and unpick it's hard to know where to begin, but given that most people seem to be in agreement as to where Custer was, and what he was up to as far as MTC and the dispatch of Martin with that final message, I think Luce ridge is as good a place to begin as anywhere.
I believe that Custer, having moved into MTC, probably from Cedar coulee, and having then dispatched Martin, moved down the coulee a little ways before riding up out of it onto the lower slopes of Luce, where he paused to get his first real view of the village. Time, {I'm using Greys as that is the one I am familiar with,} 3.40
Whilst there are those that think he saw all he needed from either Weir Point or Sharpshooter ridge, I have to say that I disagree. Yes he would have seen some of the village, and realised that it was bigger than he had thought, but he wouldn't have gleaned as much information as he would be able to from the slopes of Luce ridge.
In many ways what he saw may have come as a bit of a shock to him, one things for sure, this couldn't have been a couple of minutes pause as there would have been a hell of lot for him to take in. For a start it was a much bigger camp than he had either imagined or expected, and then there was the fact that there were far more warriors around than he had initially thought, whatsmore, these warriors, far from running as had been feared, were seen to be rushing off in large numbers to counter attack Reno's puny force. As if all that wasn't bad enough, he would have also been able to see that the non-coms; again far more than he had thought he would have to deal with, were heading North towards the horse herd and, horror of horrors, possible flight taking the herd with them. In other words he was presented with a fast moving situation which required that he do something quickly before it got even further out of control.
So far so obvious. So what did he do? Well, like many others I then believe he then sent 2 companies down towards the ford, A to check it's viability should he wish to use it at some point, and B to draw some of the indians to him and away from Reno, thus, by relieving the pressure somewhat, allowing him, {Reno,} to press forward with his attack. Given the general level of noise, he would have been well away that there was a very heavy engagement going on somewhere out of sight behind Bouyers bluffs, but I think that he would also have guessed; if he had not already been told by Bouyer, that Reno's attack had stuttered to a halt, if only by the fact that he could see that the warriors were still streaming forward towards Reno's force, and not falling back from it under pressure as he would have hoped.
Given that, Custer may have reasoned that by moving North across the high ridges, he could achieve two things, firstly by temporarily keeping some distance between himself and any warriors who might come out to engage him, he could utilize his firepower to its best effect, and secondly, by moving further away from Reno, he would hopefully split the warrior force, thus stopping it from concentrating-it's full weight on one component of his command.
It was probably not what he would have wished for, after all the high ridges were definitely not the sort of ground best suited for cavalry to be operating on, he would I'm sure, have much preferred to get down on the valley floor, but for the moment, needs must. Time 3.45
What evidence there is indicates that initially at least, he moved across Luce; doing a good deal of firing, and then up onto Nye Cartwright, where again he did a good deal of firing. At some point during this journey Wolf Tooth and Big Foots fifty or so warriors attempted to disrupt the move, but I don't believe that they were all that well armed, and having buzzed around his flanks like some irritating wasps, they almost certainly withdrew to the east of him, from where they continued to shadow his force, taking care to keep well out of range of his guns.
Meanwhile, the force down at the ford had accomplished most of what they had wanted to do, but having only been opposed by a small number of warriors initially, growing numbers now meant that it was probably prudent to withdraw. In fact I believe that had always been the plan, and that having signaled them to do just that, Custer then had those two volleys delivered to show the indians who was still boss around here. Time 4.20-4.25
By now it must have been apparent to Custer that Reno's attack had not only stuttered to a halt, but had failed to the point where he must have been driven off. Anybody that cared to train their glasses back towards Weir Point would have seen various groups of Indians milling around up there, Indians who, far from being under pressure, were now cheekily moving towards their flanks. Whatsmore, looking back down towards the ford, they may have seen the first sign of returning warriors down on the valley floor, warriors who, just like those up on Weir, were obviously not fleeing as had been hoped, but were, in some cases at least, actually crossing the river to engage them.
In spite of that, Custer at least seems to felt that everything was still under control; although I suspect he was pretty much alone in thinking that at this point. Whatsmore, far from deciding to move back and re-join the other parts of his command as most of us armchair experts blessed with hindsight would have imagined, he then decides to split his small force up yet again, and move even further North, probably in search of yet another ford, one much closer to the non-coms.
As he rides off, probably leaving Keogh a free rein to attack across MTF should the opportunity or the need arise, I to, sensing that this could well turn into a novel, will leave it there for now; how many times have other posters come onto the board thinking that they will just write a pungent line or two and then sign off, only to find themselves still sat there an hour or so, and dozens of paragraphs later, still, God help us, at it?
Shan