I SURVIVED CUSTER'S LAST STAND

[jdmackintosh]

This is the title of the fine book from Michael Nunnally who visits this board. Just out, and well worth the purchase price. He can tell you the details of price and where to order. It includes accounts of those who claimed to be survivors, the most notorioius of which weree Heath and Finkel. Also included are individuals whom we know were at the battle such as Curley, Peter Thompson, Kanipoe, Martin, etc. all having in common a narrow scrape with death on the Little Big Horn. Toss in accounts on Comanche and the Gray Horse who did indeed survive, along with conjecture on Butler and Foley as to whether they almost survived with last messages, and you have a fascinating read. Especially enjoyed the photographs of the graves of two survivor claimants, their assertions carved in the granite of their tombstones.
This book joins the other survivor literature in my collection. If you are interested in this genre of Custeriana, here is what I have. Please let me know of any books devoted exclusively to this area that I have missed. It's fascinating fiction:
1. MASSACRE SURVIVOR--THE STORY OF FRANK FINKEL, Charles Kuhlman marries the Finkel surivor story.
2. SOLE SURVIVOR--AN EXAMINATION OF THE FRANK FINKEL NARRATIVE-Doulgas W. Ellison's detailed account in hardback. Good photographs.
3. NO CUSTER SURVIVOR OR UNVEILING FRANK FINKEL, let's just say Finkel doesn't survive Bill Boyes research and writing.
4. BILLY HEATH-Vincent Genovese's book published in 2003. I reviewed this on Amazon, so no need to repeat here.
5. MYSTERY OF THE ROSEBUD-Douglas Ellison's first rate work on Nathan Short and why he died on Last Stand Hill and not on the Rosebud. The mystery horse most likely belonged to a deserter who dropped out of Custer's column on June 22.

Also of interest, survivor stories in Wild West 2001 Custer issue, Son of the Morning Star, Custer's Luck, and Dippie's Custer's Last Stand. Michael's book encapsulates all of the above listed books. Enjoyable reading!

[Treasuredude]

I was just up in North Dakota visiting my parents. I picked up Ellison's Mystery of the Rosebud there. I had never heard of it. I thought it looked interesting so i bought it. I was pleased to see that you thought it was a first rate book.

[Danny]

I have not read Mr.Elison's books so I do not mean anything negative. However I have read the story on the "Man who made it to the Rosebud" (the author escapes me but it was in Research Review) and it made a pretty convincing case on the body being that of Nathan Short. The problem is that most people leave out or downplay evidence that does not support their theories. Then when you read the books or articles you get the info they want you to get.

[jdmackintosh]

You bring up some good points and I should have mentioned the artilce you cite:

Robert Doran, "The Man Who Got to the Rosebud", LBHA Research Revew, Winter 2002.

Ideally, that ought to be read and studied against either Ellison's booklet or his article on the same subject that appeared in the Greasy Grass around 2002-2003? What's interesting about the mystery horse on the Rosebud is that Edgar Stewart mentions it in his classic CUSTER'S LUCK and raises the possibility that it might have belonged to a deserter or straggler, rather than someone who escaped the battle. (see page 493). Doug Ellison's book explores that in much greater detail than the brief mention by Stewart. The mystery horse on the Rosebud is yet more intriguing mystery of the Little Big Horn.

[Michael N]

John,

Thanks so much for the kind remarks regarding my little booklet on sole survivors! I have always thought it a fascinating subject, the real 'Jack Crabbs'. The Nathan Short story is also compelling and it is remarkable that a lot of people still believe it. The soldiers body found near the Rosebud was supposedly 'fully clothed'......soldiers accounts say it was viewed by a number of troopers and all speculated about who it was. Now consider that troopers ALL had their names sewed or inked in their clothes. Almost all of the soldiers sent their dirty & soiled clothes to the post laundress at some point. All undergarments looked alike and you definitely wanted to keep them separated. So when troopers looked down on the 'body' of an unknown trooper, fully clothed, and speculated who it was, all they had to do was check the name written in the socks,undergarments, coat, pants, and find out. This was a way they attempted to ID the dead on Custer's field, but the Indians had taken most of the uniforms and cut the names out of the socks and undergarments for some unknown reason. More than one soldier's body was claimed to have been found, but no one ever claimed to have buried these 'bodies', just rode off and left them lying about. There are to many question marks in these accounts to be believed. Walt and I went around & around about this awhile back. Some people believe it.....I don't.

Doran's story gives no compelling evidence on the body being that of Short other than here-say. The body found found on the Rosebud was not a trooper, but became one in later tellings. The Short story begins with a mythical hat and spreads from there. Godfrey thought it nonsense. I agree.

John, I'm working on Wallace piece.

Scout

[jdmackintosh]

I agree with you on Nathan Short. So much of it was hearsay, campfire gossip with no one ever stating that they actually identified Short and explaining how he was ID. The presence of the full bag of oats certainly speaks to the fact that the horse had not travelled far or else those would have been consummed.

All in all though, the Legend of the LBH would be poorer without all of these stories and claimants. Trouble develops only when the line between fact and fiction becomes blurred in the minds of many.

Glad to hear Wallace is coming along.

[Walt Cross]

Okay Scout, quit holding back, where can we order the book? Also, what is the upshot of the book "Mystery of the Rosebud"? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Walt

[Michael N]

'' I Survived Custer's Last Stand!'' can be ordered at; Michael Nunnally, PO BOX 38511, Germantown, Tn. 38183-0511
price is $6.50 which includes shipping & handling. signed. Thanks Walt...I thought you'd never ask!

''Mystery of the Rosebud'' [ I did the cover art] by Doug Ellison can be found on line or at;
Western Edge Books P.O.Box 466 Medora, ND 58645 OR CALL 701-623-4345..I'm not sure of the price.

Doug's book is well worth the price....A minor masterpiece on the LBH.

Scout

[Danny]

The thing that really makes me think though is why Nathan Short? There were two hundred or so soldiers that fell with General Custer and few non-coms and privates identified. So why we they just pull Nathan Short's name out of the air. That makes me feel that there may indeed have been a body and something about it made someone think it was Nathan Short. Of course I have no evidence to support this, maybe I just want to believe it.

[Scout7]

I think most people 'want to believe it' ...remember this whole Nathan Short thing is based on a hat, and the story seems to start with Kanipe. He passed the story to Camp, but when quizzed admitted he never saw the hat and had never talked with anyone who had seen the hat. He said it came From some 'scouts'. Now, if it was a hat with Short's name, could it not have been losted on the way to the LBH? Could an Indian have losted it later? Pvt. Frank Siffin says the hat belonged to Pvt. Oscar Warner. The same story, different name. Why don't we put up a monument to Warner as well? All of the men with Custer 'lost' their hats....the Indians took most of them and probably discarded them later. Short & Warner were with Custer.

But the main point is....there was NEVER a body WITH the Rosebud horse. All of the so called trooper bodies were supposedly found a half a mile away or greater. They were all fully clothed....[they have to be clothed in the tall tale, or the story doesn't work] and yet all of the men who saw them 'only speculated as to their identities'. All they had to do was check for names. And all of the so called sighter's were to lazy to do this or even bury the bodies. In fact, there were no soldiers bodies to bury. Gossip, rumor,tall tales and a lot of BS.

I don't think any trooper escaped that day, although we know from Indian accounts, several attempts were made but all were brought down by Indian firing. Martini was a very lucky man that day. His horse had several wounds. Other messengers were probably sent but there mounts were brought down and they were killed. ''Why Nathan Short?'' Someone probably found his hat at some point....there were hundreds of them blowing across the Montana landscape. The bottom line is people WANT TO BELIEVE these stories....they want to believe someone escaped. The man who got away.

Scout

[jdmackintosh]

You are right. I think, after witnesssing so much death on the Custer battlefield, the troopers were naturally hopeful that someone, somewhere, someway had escaped death there and actually made it out, even if it meant that they fell elsewhere, as they thought Short had. Of course, this explains so much of the appeal of Comanche and how he captures the hearts and imaginations of people right down to today.

Truly, the most dramatic Siioux War escape story played out less then 150 miles south of the Little Big Horn in early July--the scout of Lt. Sibly and his men into the Big Horns, their near total destruction by roving bands of Lakota and their miracle escape and eventual return to Crook's camp on Goose Creek. Now THAT was a true survivors story.

[Scout7]

John...yea, the Sibley story is great! Talk about high adventure! Why read fiction when you can read those kind of stories..that is one of my favorites. But the book that really sparked my interest was one I bought in 1973 while on a business trip to Wichita, Ks. I bought a copy of ..'Great Western Indian Fights' by the members of the Potomac Corral of the Westerners. This book rekindled my interest and I was hooked! What a great book.

[elisabeth]

Back to the Nathan Short story, in Camp's notes ('Custer in '76', p. 127), there's one survivor -- Sgt. Richard P. Hanley, of Co. C -- of whom who Camp says: "Heard of Nathan Short. He got good distance towards Rosebud. Had bobtailed horse. Only bobtailed horse in co. Had initials on cartridge belt." So maybe they didn't need to mess about with the clothing of a presumably, by now, well-rotted corpse to identify him ...

If this corpse, whether Short or not, was a Co. C man, could he not have been the messenger Curley says (in his Russell White Bear testimony) was sent to Terry? The one on the sorrel-roan horse?

However, another soldier (p. 122 -- Jacob Adams) talks about seeing "a dead soldier and dead horse south of Yellowstone and within sight of Yellowstone ... The body was then thought to be one of L troop men who had been with Custer and scalped ... We concluded that both the man and the horse had been wounded and had gotten that far and given out." He then adds perhaps the most significant comment: "This find was considered no unusual thing, and I do not suppose one of our officers woud have gone to see it if he had heard about it." Which rather suggests that there was no 'one' dead soldier and 'one' dead horse, but several. Explains some of the confusion, perhaps?

[Scout7]

Well Elisabeth, we can speculate all day about the subject, but what we need is a body. It vanishes. All of the private's accounts are questionable. Godfrey and several officers viewed the Rosebud horse scene and said the body story was nonsense. This is a key part of this fable; A body was found WITH the Rosebud horse. None of the officers saw this body, it vanishes. Secondly, even some of the witnesses to the body story cannot agree. Pvt. Anthony Gavin was not to be outdone, he even makes him a Lieutenant with arrows sticking in him!None of the other private's tall tale speak of an officer. Now the army would have really tried to find out who he was. But no, they could only scratch their heads and 'speculate'.

What we need are witnesses with more accountability. All of the stories seem to be nothing more than gossip & tall tales from overactive imaginations. Now which is more exciting, the reality or the myth? People will always go with the myth...it's more fun.

Scout

[elisabeth]

Oh yes, the myth every time!

Even in the myths, we never seem to hear whether the body was buried, or just left. Maybe the only way we'll ever know (if it matters!) is if somebody swamps the area with a team of those police dogs trained to sniff out human remains. Of course, if they found nothing, it wouldn't settle matters. But if they DID find a skeleton ...?

Likeliest explanation for a 'vanishing' body: a trooper taking an unauthorised nap?