Crazy Horse Arrives

[conz]

By Crazy Horse, should also mean the hundred or more mounted "retainers" that were following him.

Clair

[steveuk]

Across Deep Ravine makes so much sense. Crossing Battle Ridge makes sense too but why wasn't he stopped by fire from Keogh's position. I mean I assume they did see him like cross their right flank while Yates' Wing was off down towards Ford D?

[fred]

Steve--

This is quite possibly the most unsolvable of all the unsolvables in this whole fiasco. The only thing I can think of if Crazy Horse used Deep Ravine (and I think he did), is that instead of crossing Battle Ridge, he swung more toward the high ground leading to Custer/Last Stand Hill, then went around its north side and into what they call "Crazy Hill Ravine," then over the top of "Crazy Horse Ridge." Once there, he dismounted and he and his men poured fire into the Keogh Sector. From "Crazy Horse Ridge" the Keogh position is like popping off targets at a carnival sideshow.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[steveuk]

yeah looking at the map now. To me, a straight cross over Battle Ridge makes no sense if we accept that Company L is on Calhoun Hill with Company C in support and Company I extending the line. Crazy Horse must have swung round the ridge or they would have come under, we assume pretty powerful volley fire from Keogh's men.

[mwkeogh]

steveuk said:

yeah looking at the map now. To me, a straight cross over Battle Ridge makes no sense if we accept that Company L is on Calhoun Hill with Company C in support and Company I extending the line. Crazy Horse must have swung round the ridge or they would have come under, we assume pretty powerful volley fire from Keogh's men.

I must absolutely agree with Fred's view and your own as stated above. Crazy Horse and his followers would have crossed just north of LSH and continued on and over to East Ridge opposite the Keogh position. I am of the opinion that he then launched his mounted charges against Keogh's battalion from the east rather than from the west side of Battle Ridge.

[doyle1876]

I also agree with some of Fred's theory. I always thought that something immediate and unstoppable had hit the Keogh sector and caused its disintegration. That area seemed organised and structured with good ground to defend. The (apologies now) 'shock and awe' of hundreds of mounted warriors pouring down from behind your position with little chance to reform a skirmish line would be devastating. The ensuing panic would have also caused the bunching affect as troopers firstly rallied to their captain and then to where Custer was. As I said somewhere on this message board before, Crazy Horse's flanking movement was probably the best cavalry maneuver of the battle

[shan]

Since visiting the battlefield and walking the ground, including the so called Keogh sector, I've always had a problem with the idea of any kind of mounted indian attack coming directly from the East and I'll tell you why.

Like most of the battlefield, I guess there have been some changes to some of the landscape features over the years, but on the whole, I would assume that it's remained pretty much the same as it was on the day of the battle. In which case the old, now redundant theory that Crazy Horse and his hordes, {irony folks irony, } had approached from the North, using the long, so called ravine that bisects the valley floor behind Keoghs position in order to get himself into a position where he could run the company down, just wouldn't work. And in my opinion, there are two reasons why not.

Firstly, those of you who have been there will know that the so called ravine it is nothing much more than a gully, being generally 3/4 feet deep in places, and 3/4 wide. Whatsmore, there was nowhere that I could see, that would hide approaching horsemen from Keoghs men, nowhere where they could move down it more than two abreast, and in most parts not even that. My other reason for doubting they used it is, if they were indeed foolish enough to have tried to ride down the gully, any hope of scrambling your pony up and out and then getting up some impetuous for a charge before being cut down, would seem pretty remote. Yes you could dismount and snipe from down there, but should the troops decide to mount up and charge, you would be caught with no cover and no where to run to.

Seeing these things is certainly one of the benefits of actually visiting the battlefield, I know that for me, prior to going I had thought that the theory was sound.

Far more likely is that a number of Indians who had worked their way up Deep coulee, used the elevated ground opposite the swale, to snipe at Keoghs men. It is perfect for that, for on the whole they would have remained hidden, whilst the enemy opposite was completely exposed. They probably didn't do a lot of damage, but they could certainly make life very uncomfortable, and whatsmore they would cause part of the command to take their eye off the ball..

Personally I doubt if there was a Crazy Horse charge in the way most people think of it at all, but if there was some kind of mounted attack, I think White Bulls various stories help provide a clue. Reading between the lines it seems likely that these attacks came from a South easterly direction, in other words behind what would have been L companies position.
The idea that he, { Crazy Horse,} approached using Deep ravine has never rung any bells with me for the reasons several of you have already given. Once they left the cover of that ravine they would have had to ride across broken ground right under the eyes, and potential fire of at least two companies, and had they done so, I suspect there would have been Indian stories of several casualties as a result of the action.
On the other hand some think he crossed at ford D and used the long route I mentioned earlier in order to get himself over to the East of the troops, but why ride such a distance, why not use the easy option? The first crossing he would come to after having been off at the Reno fight would have been MTf, so why not use that and then take either Deep coulee, or MTC itself to circle around the enemy.

Whoops, I've been far too long on this, the wind has dropped, an exhausted sun is out and the dog is chewing my sleeve off,

Shan

[fred]

Y'all--

Let me try to clarify my thoughts on this Crazy Horse business.

First of all, Shan, I don't believe he charged from the east. I do not believe I have said that he did. And I also agree with you about the terrain; you are 100% correct there. I think the pictures I have posted somewhere, bear that out.

My impressions of this whole Keogh Sector business are as follows. And please, remember, everything I put up here depends on the theory that Custer was under no heavy, severe pressure when he dropped off Keogh's battalion. That's very important to what I say next.

I believe Keogh placed L where we all know it to have been, then he strung C into that slight swayback just north of L. He did not-- I think-- put C on Finley/Calhoun/"Fishline" Ridge-- at least not immediately. That position-- pressure or no pressure-- is absolutely untenable from a tactical point of view (too strung out, too far from means of support). Company I was then put along Battle Ridge, more or less in an administrative position, ready at a moment's notice to be called into action. I know some of you will roll your eyes at that, but it makes perfect sense if you are not under much pressure.

Well, pressure did begin to mount. Indians crossed at Ford B, a heck of a long way off...


Ford B is in the distance. The ford is within those trees you can see just below the bright green field. You can also clearly see "Boyer's Bluff" just to the left of the trees. This was taken from the top of Calhoun Hill, the part that's closest west. You can also see Finley Ridge here, strung out and entering the picture from the right. See why that's such a bad position to try to hold?

... and they moved, hidden, up Deep Coulee; along the river side of Greasy Grass Ridge, where they mounted that ridge to fire on anything they could see or that came close; they infiltrated toward Finley Ridge and into Calhoun Coulee. Some of those who moved up Deep Coulee moved farther east and swung around to the north and approached Keogh's position with "Crazy Horse Ridge" between them and Keogh (this is now the ridge Shan refers to). Once up that ridgeline, they could hit Keogh from behind.

Others moved farther up-valley and crossed at Deep Ravine, as I believe Crazy Horse did. Once into Deep Ravine, they could move up to Battle Ridge-- suicide, I would think, because of Keogh's Company I position-- but they could also branch to the south and move up Calhoun Coulee from that way. With this configuration, you have Indians on three sides of you. But here is where you have to be careful! Look at the distances involved. They are huge and it takes time to cover them on foot, which is how most of these warriors approached. And they are especially cautious, because despite the cover and concealment, they are still under fire if they can be spotted. Indians on horseback would do no good along the river side of Greasy Grass and the only area where horsemen could move without being mowed down, might be within the banks of the cutbank of Deep Coulee. Even then, I am not positive, but I certainly wouldn't belabor that point, because I think many Indians on horseback did use that Deep Coulee cutbank to move around Calhoun's position and into Keogh's rear from the east.

Now... Crazy Horse. Shan is correct regarding the terrain. I would imagine-- please notice the use of words here: there is no certainty to my tone-- Crazy Horse moved with his party of 50 to 100 warriors across the Deep Ravine ford, up Deep Ravine, and then he swung to his left, away from Keogh's riflemen (carbine-men!). That would bring him up toward the easier ground of the basin area-- and he would have to be taking fire here, so the whole move is certainly no surprise!!-- then up onto the lower area of that Last Stand Hill ridge, around the ridge (bisecting Custer's trail toward Ford D, mind you), then into what I think they call "Crazy Horse Ravine" (which incidentally, is what Custer himself skirted along on his trip to Ford D!). Once into that ravine area, Old Horse realized it was nothing more than a narrow channel leading to a killing field and he would be a sitting duck had he continued into it. So, Shan, that corresponds to your ideas. Rather than continue along that killer ravine, he moved east and came up behind the so-called "Crazy Horse Ridge" where he met others who had come up from Deep Coulee. They all dismounted and climbed to the military crest of the ridge and hit Keogh from behind.

This, to me, explains two things: (1) why Keogh's men were found closer to the low ground (they were seeking cover-- right or wrong-- just like the men found in Deep Ravine; this is where the panic theories come in); and, (2) why they were strung out along the east side of Battle Ridge (they were seeking safety along the open route north toward where Custer had moved). They didn't move along the west or river side of Battle Ridge-- except for a few, maybe-- because they knew that was where the Indians were coming from (up Deep Ravive).

So... Shan... I agree with you here. The traditional mounted Crazy Horse charge is either fiction or it came very late in the destruction of Keogh's battalion, the major moving impetus of which emanated from Finley Ridge, Calhoun Coulee, Henryville, and the eastern extremes of Deep Coulee.

As far as I can see, that pretty much coincides with "steveuk," "shan," "doyle1876," and "keogh."

Best wishes,
Fred.

[conz]

Pohanka turned me on to my current model about Crazy Horse's arrival. It is supported by Trooper burial markers and native witness accounts. It goes like this:

Crazy Horse and others (Lame White Man et al) crossed at Deep Ravine and massed in the low ground behind GGR and in the ravine itself near the river. Here is where CH dismounted and fired a few shots, etc., during the long skirmish period with Keogh's battalion.

Co L is on Calhoun, I Co is in the swale N of Calhoun, down the EAST side of battle ridge (not on it), and C Co is on Calhoun Ridge, that slopes NW of the hill, watching L's right flank.

At some point Keogh orders Harrington's C Co to move down to GGR...that's what the burial markers indicate, and native accounts seem to reflect this movement off battle ridge down towards the river.

This is the grand opportunity CH and company sees...C Co abandons its firing line covering Deep Ravine and Calhoun Coulee, and makes a mounted charge to GGR. Fire slackens...the Natives fall back a bit. C Co clears GGR and Finley's Point, dismounts, and tries to force the Natives back down into the low ground on the river.

At this point CH remounts and takes his Warriors up Deep Ravine and over battle ridge, with almost no opposition whatsoever. In doing so, they slam right into I Co at the bottom on the east side of battle ridge...they never saw what hit them! Crazy Horses men ride THROUGH and around I Co, some Warriors becoming dismounted and hand to hand melee ensues. Crazy Horse and many men, now on the east side of I Co, turn around and charge back into Keogh's fray, back and forth as mounted men are want to do. In this process they split I Co from L/C Co's on Calhoun hill, and prevent Calhoun from joining Keogh, although it appears that they tried.

During the above, LWM and others (much larger mostly dismounted group) flood up Calhoun Coulee behind C Co overrunning them and sending the rest up Calhoun ridge and towards L Co. Some of the still mounted C Co men make it to Calhoun Hill and then through the melee all the way back eventually to Custer Hill. This is because they were always mounted...did not lose their "held horses" like most of the other companies did.

As L Co turns to deal with the threat coming up behind them, they are pressed from the south and southeast by Gall's and Two Moons' men. As L Co tries to move towards Keogh's dust bowl and abandon Calhoun Hill, this force rushes Calhoun so L and C Co survivors go down in a huge melee pressed from all directions.

That's how the skirmish lines were broken...none from their frontal fields of fire, and none from attrition/fire combat. It was the ability, due to a tactical defensive breakdown of Keogh's battalion, for the Natives to get into close combat around the fire zones the cavalry had established.

This model explains how I Co ended up where it died, how Crazy Horse's ability to get to that battlefield location, is in line with Native witness accounts of C Co's actions, and explains how Keogh's battalion was quickly destroyed when they initially seemed to have such good defensive positions that held its own during a long skirmishing fire phase.

Clair

[wild]

Before considering Crazy Horse's route of attack one must consider what he was up against.
Was he attacking 210 dismounted troopers holding a defensive line?The evidence would suggest that no defensive posture had been adoped by Custer.
Consider the center of the "position"a ridge with not a trooper on it.Consider Custer's position the exposed outflanked side of a hill.It is possible to go through each company and find nothing resembling an established defensive position.
Was Custer engaged in some sort of defensive manuevering dropping off troops willy nilly 40 troopers here 40 troopers there?
And to what purpose?
210 Troopers were spread out over 1/2 a mile.With their single shot carbines their fire power over any section of the line was derisory.
That "line" on the ridge is dwarfted and outflaked by the village out of which anything up to and over 1500 warriors poured.
There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that Custer was in anything other than line of march and they had nothing more than a couple of minutes before they were hit along their entire line .
The suggestion that hundreds of warriors would dismount and fight on foot is ridiculous.500 charging Indians are not going to be stopped by a handful of troopers trying to hold a flank.
A tidal wave of warriors hit Custer in line of march and that was it.

[fred]

Clair--

I realize Pohanka is something of a lionized figure in these circles, but the fact remains that this theory, if accepted in toto, flies in the face of every piece of archaeological evidence found on the battlefield.

Now I realize that this archaeology has ruined more than one theory and I further realize that some of it must be considered guesswork and I realize once more that some of it may even be tainted, but the fact remains that this work poses a number of questions that if not satisfactorily answered, renders a particular theory highly questionable. For C Company to clear Greasy Grass Ridge, it had to have occupied it. There is no evidence whatsoever that this occurred. A move close to the beginning of the ridge, I can buy, but an occupation, for however long, is out of the question for me.

Next... Calhoun Ridge/Finley Ridge... An early occupation of that ridge makes absolutely no sense to me. Now maybe it occurred, but it makes no sense. You are stringing out your forces; you have an unprotected flank; you have an unprotected rear (and you know Indians are coming on you from behind!); and it compromises your concentration of fire. Was Keogh that stupid? You should also be aware that there was absolutely no concentration of any bullets in that area, yet there was a heavy concentration on both Calhoun Hill and the Keogh Sector.

What does that tell me? Well, since Finley/Calhoun Ridge would have been reached far earlier by infiltrating Indians than Calhoun Hill was, it seems to tell me there was nothing there to fire at. In addition, there was a heavy concentration of Indian casings found on Greasy Grass Ridge in the direct, shortest line with Calhoun Hill. That makes sense, right? Yet, Finley/Calhoun is right in the middle of that line! So now you have Indians firing onto Calhoun Hill from GGR and you have Indians firing on to Calhoun Hill as they move up Deep Coulee, yet there is no evidence of Indian bullets (or extremely little) on Finley/Calhoun. Yeah, I know, souvenir hunters! But I don't buy it. Over all these years, the pickin's have got to have somehow evened out.

Now maybe this is just nit-picking and maybe someone else can put all this together to figure out just where we differ. I am a huge believer in the theory that Harrington's C Company charged into Calhoun Coulee. Totally agree with that. But I believe the charge came off the area somewhere between the northern part of Calhoun Hill itself and where it joins Battle Ridge. It did not come off Finley/Calhoun//Calhoun/Finley//"Fishline" Ridge.

I also know that the general placement of markers is a disputatious subject, but the placement we see today-- including that of "Trooper Mike's"-- supports a charge into the coulee, parallel with a charge off the Battle Ridge environs as opposed to a "left-wheel" charge off of Calhoun Ridge.

So in the C Company charge business, there's little to argue for me.

If you want to make a case for Crazy Horse going across Battle Ridge rather than skirting Last Stand Hill, I wouldn't bet my ranch against it, but I think that scenario has unsolvable weaknesses, not the least of which is that I find it exceptionally hard to believe that Keogh didn't have men on the military crest of Battle Ridge watching that Deep Ravine ingress. That would be almost stunningly stupid. But maybe Pohanka's reading of the "testimony" was/is more profound than mine.

There is also tremendous archaeological evidence of an Indian presence on the east side of "Crazy Horse Ridge," so that cannot be eliminated from any theory.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[erkki]

Time? I cannot believe that warriors from the valley, including Crazy Horse, arrived before Lame White Man's charge. Eastman says:

"The forces that repulsed Reno numbered not over five hundred. This was all that they could muster up in so short a time. Of this number probably one hundred went over to the Custer battle; but they were a little late."

Moving Robe's account supports the inference that C Co. was reeling back toward Calhoun Hill when the valley warriors began arriving. By the time they arrived, the Cheyenne had GAC surrounded on three sides, and the Sioux then filled in the south side. I think CH crossed at Deep Ravine, at least downstream of MTC, but not the wide swing to the left and I know he played a notable role in the fighting; but when did he get there? Since I think it was after LWM's charge, chaos/panic was underway in Co. C and affecting Co. L. CH coming up Deep Ravine, out of sight of Yates/HQ, focussing on the activity around Calhoun Hill went up Calhoun Coulee and split I Co. from L Co.and the remnants of C Co. now trying to escape north, because the position on Calhoun Hill was becoming untenable as valley warriors poured up Deep Coulee. Actually splitting L Co. from I Co. sounds too organized, because some soldiers from C and L did reach Keogh, and He Dog said that "K" was where CH split the troops.

Three bodies and a few casings on the military crest of Greasy Grass indicate to me that part of C Co. occupied that area however briefly. L Co. was posted semi-circularly around the military crest of Calhoun Hill.

Little Wolf in Cheyenne Memories, p. 80 (not the only one but easiest one to find at the moment):
"When Custer was first seen he was opposite Ford "B' in MTC, traveling parallel with the river, soldiers deployed and seemingly trying to circle the camp. After he passed MTC, Indians followed him. Only one [skirmish]line on Custer Ridge, [which] was from "C" to "D". I was there. Lame White Man charged them here and chased them to Keogh where he (Lame White Man) was killed. From "D" and "G" no line. Soldiers moving right along. We did not know it was Custer."

"C" to "D" is Finley to Calhoun.

There is no evidence for how I Co. was deployed, but given that the Cheyenne were north and east of the soldiers and infitrating hidden in gullies to the west, might not Co. I be tasked with--or even occupied by--the threat coming from the east/northeast? The Cheyenne were still up there in the vicinity of Hwy 212. The skirmish line from C to D then might have initially seemed appropriate to cover the threat from the river, Ford B area, while I Co. deployed on the eastern military crest of Battle Ridge. There really wasn't much time for positioning once Keogh's battalion moved to Battle Ridge.

But, again He Dog:
"Before fight started, we drove him up a slope to a ridge and over to other side of it. Soldiers mounted all time and kept going right along. All together all time. Did not fight by companies. Indians all along Custer ridge, and [generic] 'Custer' went down along hollow by Keogh."

So where was Co. I? Once disintegration started, it was over with fast, and we know where Keogh was found, not how he got there.

[wild]

Reno's unit of 130 men formed in a skirmish line and under control lasted 15 minutes.How long would these penny packets of 40 man units survive .
Not only was Custer's entire force defeated in detail but his own force was fragmented and defeated in detail.
There was no cohesion no cooperation and no leadership anywhere in evidence among Custer's shambles.
The spreading out of 210 men disipated his firepower.If CH had his choice of formations to face he would have chosen that one.
Once the Indian attack built up a head of steam it did not stop till it hit home and to suggest they engaged in hide and seek tactics is a nonsense.
Benteen an experienced soldier described it exactly.

[conz]

fred said:

Clair--
I realized Pohanka is something of a lionized figure in these circles, but the fact remains that this theory, if accepted in toto, flies in the face of every piece of archaeological evidence found on the battlefield.

Note that Pohanka was intimately acquainted with Fox's digs, and created this model after considering all that evidence.

For C Company to clear Greasy Grass Ridge, it had to have occupied it. There is no evidence whatsoever that this occurred. A move close to the beginning of the ridge, I can buy, but an occupation, for however long, is out of the question for me.

How long C Co may have been on GGR, or if they even made it there, is actually immaterial to this model, I think. The key element is that C Co left its good firing positions covering Deep Ravine, and moved towards GGR...to what purpose only Keogh and Harrington know, but we can surmise. It would only take a few moments for the Natives to gather their wits and immediately move forward against no fire and overwhelm the C Co Troopers. About 1/3rd of that company, and probably LT Harrington himself, was lost in the GGR "vicinity"...either running back from its crest, or while approaching the crest.

Next... Calhoun Ridge/Finley Ridge... An early occupation of that ridge makes absolutely no sense to me. Now maybe it occurred, but it makes no sense. You are stringing out your forces; you have an unprotected flank; you have an unprotected rear (and you know Indians are coming on you from behind!); and it compromises your concentration of fire. Was Keogh that stupid? You should also be aware that there was absolutely no concentration of any bullets in that area, yet there was a heavy concentration on both Calhoun Hill and the Keogh Sector.

I may be the victim of terrain identification here and misidentified Calhoun Ridge...sorry. The terrain initially occupied by C Co Brian believed was that spur coming off Calhoun Hill that pointed towards Deep Ravine between the Battle Ridge crest and GGR. It makes a decent firing position to defend L Co's right flank, although somewhat in the rear of a L Co line facing due south, and against the Deep Ravine/Calhoun Coulee approach. No bodies were found at this location.

As long as C Co occupied that ridge, Natives could not get close to battle ridge or into Calhoun's rear. They did seem to be creeping up Calhoun Ridge, though, coming up on L Co's west flank, supported by riflemen strung out along GGR crest.

What does that tell me? Well, since Finley/Calhoun Ridge would have been reached far earlier by infiltrating Indians than Calhoun Hill was, it seems to tell me there was nothing there to fire at. In addition, there was a heavy concentration of Indian casings found on Greasy Grass Ridge in the direct, shortest line with Calhoun Hill. That makes sense, right? Yet, Finley/Calhoun is right in the middle of that line! So now you have Indians firing onto Calhoun Hill from GGR and you have Indians firing on to Calhoun Hill as they move up Deep Coulee, yet there is no evidence of Indian bullets (or extremely little) on Finley/Calhoun. Yeah, I know, souvenir hunters! But I don't buy it. Over all these years, the pickin's have got to have somehow evened out.

I think the C Co bodies on Finley/Calhoun ridge are the results of the "buffalo hunt" that must have occurred when C Co broke up as a result of CH/LWM's attack on their rear/flank as the moved to occupy GGR. These men were killed by lances and tomahawks...so no bullets.

Now maybe this is just nit-picking and maybe someone else can put all this together to figure out just where we differ. I am a huge believer in the theory that Harrington's C Company charged into Calhoun Coulee. Totally agree with that. But I believe the charge came off the area somewhere between the northern part of Calhoun Hill itself and where it joins Battle Ridge. It did not come off Finley/Calhoun//Calhoun/Finley//"Fishline" Ridge.

You are exactly right, and I'm very sorry for the confusion. As stated above, Brian thought their position was probably that spur/crest between Battle Ridge and GGR.

I also know that the general placement of markers is a disputatious subject, but the placement we see today-- including that of "Trooper Mike's"-- supports a charge into the coulee, parallel with a charge off the Battle Ridge environs as opposed to a "left-wheel" charge off of Calhoun Ridge.

Just so!

If you want to make a case for Crazy Horse going across Battle Ridge rather than skirting Last Stand Hill, I wouldn't bet my ranch against it, but I think that scenario has unsolvable weaknesses, not the least of which is that I find it exceptionally hard to believe that Keogh didn't have men on the military crest of Battle Ridge watching that Deep Ravine ingress. That would be almost stunningly stupid. But maybe Pohanka's reading of the "testimony" was/is more profound than mine.

See...C Co was there. So if they left, it would behoove I Co to leave what they were doing and occupy C Co's positions. Any firing line along battle ridge or C Co ridge would stop any advance from Deep Ravine. Since the advance did happen to destroy C Co, there probably was NOT any firing line on Battle Ridge.

Why didn't Keogh replace C Co's position?
- Perhaps C Co was just making a charge and coming back...that was often done just to push the Natives back. But they got swamped before they could get back, and the Natives pushed their recall path back up Calhoun Ridge, instead of back to their original firing positions.
- Maybe I Co simply hadn't been told in time to assume firing positions before C Co charged off.
- Maybe I Co was engaged eastward and couldn't be easily moved off to the west at that time.

If Crazy Horse had moved to the north of LSH, Yate's squadron would have intercepted him probably...he couldn't have been that far away. And then CH & Co would be drawn NORTH, not south towards Keogh, eh?

So CH must have gone over battle ridge south of LSH...and surprisingly ended up in the middle of I Co. I'm sure CH and his Warriors were as surprised as I Co was.

There is also tremendous archaeological evidence of an Indian presence on the east side of "Crazy Horse Ridge," so that cannot be eliminated from any theory.

Aye...maybe what kept I Co facing east when Crazy Horse came over the crest of battle ridge from the west?

Clair

[fred]

Clair--

I am not sure we disagree here, on anything. If the ridge you are referring to is what I call "Harrington Ridge" (for lack of anything better to call it), then that is a very clever interpretation and one I can whole-heartedly accept, whether it came from Pohanka or you or anyone else... well, almost anyone else.

If your theory is telling me that Keogh put Calhoun where we all know him to have been, and then strung Harrington to cover that ridge, i.e., the southern Deep Ravine fork as well as the upper portion of Calhoun Coulee (that ridge separates the two), then I buy it. That makes great sense. It would also make more sense for a charge from that area, incorporating the southern sector of Battle Ridge/northern sector of Calhoun Hill (in front of the horse-holders' swale), because you wouldn't have to pivot to cover Calhoun Coulee. So, I can buy that and use it as a very good possibility.

The Greasy Grass Ridge business, however, is another issue. "Erkki," who I greatly admire and respect, claimed bodies were found on the "military crest" of GGR, and I take exception, not only to that, but to any scenario that has troops advancing that far. Those bodies, from everything I have read, were found in Calhoun Coulee, in between where it branches off from the main Deep Ravine and where it sort of turns and heads toward Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge. The markers are there today-- I think 3 of them-- and then "Trooper Mike's" farther up the coulee in the direction of Calhoun Hill/Battle Ridge. I believe those three markers represent the farthest extent of the C Company venture.

Now what happened from there is anyone's guess, but mine is that Harrington had them dismount and strung them out. That's when all hell broke loose. Either he went that far (where the markers are) or he strung them across the two ridges and into Calhoun Coulee (parallel to GGR) and the troops were forced into that area (again, dive into the low ground behind a bush to find cover and safety!). Ultimately, I believe the remnants of C Company made it to Finley Ridge, up to Calhoun Hill or the swale area of Battle Ridge, and then into the Keogh Sector.

You know how I am about my three principles and that scenario fits all three perfectly.

This is a very nice job, Clair. It has brought some good discussions between us, and I like "steveuk," "doyle1876," "keogh," "erkki," and "shan's" contributions. They've brought a lot to this. Nice job, and I thank you for it.

Best wishes,
Fred.