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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 25, 2007 18:59:23 GMT -6
I love it! One week we're accused of demeaning Custer at every chance, and now we're afraid to kick the dead lion.
Lusty, I'm quite sure that Broken Sword's explanation regarding Major Annie Jones is the answer you are looking for unless you can give us a citation for the exchange at the hearing.
I asked your son about the woman you spoke with at the battlefield, but he didn't answer. What is your recollection of her?
Diane
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Post by Scout on Nov 25, 2007 20:40:25 GMT -6
well let's see...a man named J.C. Lockwood said he was Custer's orderly during the battle. Willie Magee said he was really Custer's orderly....also Alfred Chapman and Frank Tarbox said they were. All of course were spinning a yarn. These guys were actually real people though. The female orderly thing sounds...well...ridiculous. Calamity Jane claimed she scouted for Custer...perhaps...
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jimc
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Post by jimc on Nov 26, 2007 16:19:46 GMT -6
Diane-
Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. In regards to the woman at the battlefield who answered Lusty's question: She was the standard NPS employee who was conducting the tour that day. I think she may have been slightly overwhelmed by Lusty's question and his matter-of-fact way of posing it. However, let me say that I have always been impressed by the caliber of people working in the NPS system.
I too have looked to no avail to find supporting evidence to Lusty's claim. When I was performing my research I went through everything I could find including microfilm of every issue of Life magazine during the McCarthy-Army hearings (they only covered a subset of the hearings though). Since the advent of the Internet, I too have looked for the entire record but have only found the Executive Sessions as Broken Sword located.
At the time I was unaware of the Major Annie Jones story which could explain the short story that Lusty mentioned. It is in a book of short stories from the Civil War that was published in the 1880's-90's.
My research was done for a thesis I did during my senior year at Univ. of Nebraska. It was not a 'term paper' (that's something you do in grade school). I had a number of theories that were quite novel at that time (research was done in 1974-75). This was long before the swell of independent researchers (as I see here on this forum) and the access to a wealth of information via the Internet. The thesis was never published and runs about 60 pages though much of it is historical background on Custer in support of my premises.
The conversation Lusty had at the battlefield was during our second visit where I was taking photographic evidence to support my theories.
My research centered around showing that Custer had not lost his mind albeit he was certainly 'angry and looking for a big score'. If all parties had executed their orders in due fashion, I was convinced then (and still am) that the 7th would have captured the village with minimal losses. I also believe this would have eventually catapulted Custer into the Presidency.
I have relocated the original thesis I submitted to UNL and maybe I'll put it out as an ebook.
Thanks to all here for your expert knowledge!
cheers, jimc
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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 26, 2007 20:07:40 GMT -6
Thank you for the details. I was wondering if perhaps you spoke with former Superintendent Barbara Booher, who was there in the early 90s and was Superintendent when the battlefield's name was changed. She would have reason to pause before replying! She put up with a lot while there because she had two whammies against her: She was female and she was Indian. Unfortunately, a small faction of LBH people make life as difficult as possible for the Indian Superintendents who, in my opinion, have all done exceptional jobs with dignity and grace. Barbara Booher is a heroine of mine because she had to put up with grief from all sides, including from AIM (see www.coloradoaim.org/history/19920601custerbattlefieldsuperintendentletterto.htm).
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Post by Tricia on Nov 27, 2007 8:38:33 GMT -6
Jimc--
You had a couple of theories that were quite novel, indeed! I have never once before heard that GAC might have catapulted GAC into to the presidency ... if you have really studied the character, it was a job for which he was completely unsuited and I think he knew that (or if he didn't realise, Libbie did).
At least you didn't think he was crazy ... --t.
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Post by Melani on Nov 28, 2007 1:04:15 GMT -6
Well, phooey, I was hoping to be able to play a real historic character!
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Post by gocav76 on Nov 28, 2007 1:56:00 GMT -6
I have been reading up on the McCarthy-Army hearings. I remember my Dad telling me that while in the Air Force he and others would all listen to the hearings. So no doubt Lusty was one of many.If the comment was made about Custer's female orderly, it must have been The Secretary of Army Robert Stevens. " During the hearings Stevens was the Army's "star witness." He "stonewalled" the subcommittee, giving vague, unresponsive, and often self-contradictory testimony. It became clear to McCarthy that Stevens was acting under orders from Eisenhower's staff.""For example, Army counsel Joseph Welch insisted for the television cameras that part of an FBI report listing subversives at Fort Monmouth was "a carbon copy of precisely nothing" and "a perfect phoney," even though FBI Director Hoover said that he had written it. Welch was much more an actor than a lawyer: later, in 1959, he starred in a major Hollywood production, Anatomy of a Murder, alongside Jimmy Stewart and Lee Remick. In any event, during the Army-McCarthy hearings the Senate hearing room was his stage, and he played his role to the hilt. When McCarthy pointed out that a member of Welch's own law firm, Fred Fischer, had been a member of the National Lawyers' Guild, an organization cited as a Communist front by the Attorney General, Welch waxed maudlin and sobbed the famous line, "Have you no sense of decency at long last?" All quotes from Cspan
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Post by alfuso on Nov 28, 2007 3:04:46 GMT -6
gocav76
I've seen the film of that hearing and Welch did not sob. He was outraged and delivered the line."Have you no sense of decency left? At long last, have you no sense of decency?" in a withering tone.
alfuso
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Post by gocav76 on Nov 28, 2007 3:59:49 GMT -6
alfuso, I'll take your word for it--I've never seen the clip. I was just quoting from the site-their words not mine. Oh yes, my Dad was not pro McCarthy! I just found a very short clip of welch and McCarthy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNwhJbwzXOA&feature=related
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jimc
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Post by jimc on Nov 28, 2007 4:19:19 GMT -6
Melani-
You still can. When has historical accuracy and a LBH screenplay ever met...
jimc p.s. - nice to see another bay area soul here
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jimc
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Post by jimc on Nov 28, 2007 5:02:47 GMT -6
Tricia, I like the concept; that someone seeking the office of President should actually be well suited for the position. Now finding someone who is both well suited and wants the job may be a challenge as I think they may be somewhat mutually exclusive :>) Actually the idea about GAC and the presidency was not part of my thesis just my own musings. The concept is based not on the 'character' but on the personality. It drives in part from the fact that George's relationship with the Army had been drastically, and probably intractably, changed in the days and weeks preceeding the campaign. I don't believe 'standing in the corner' and 'begging' to have been George's strong suits. As for being a novel idea, I don't believe in 1974 when I formulated the notion that it was a new idea. Even the NPS has it on their website under 'Dispelling the Myths'. (see www.nps.gov/archive/libi/myths.html ) But I'll have to grant you that none of his writings that I've seen indicate any prior political aspirations and this might be just another one of my grand ideas that is patently false. many regards, jimc
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Post by Tricia on Nov 28, 2007 8:36:52 GMT -6
Jimc--
Let me put it this way. After the ACW, GAC was offered many political opportunities in his home state of Michigan. Every single one of those chances were declined by the Boy General. Just because Custer might have been less than impressed with the manner the Establishment--not just the Army--treated him during the Belknap hearings, that doesn't mean he's going to go out and seek the presidency of the entire nation to get even. All of his plans--post battle--were to continue writing and starting the Redpath lecture tour. Perhaps a big ass win at LBH might have created a draft-Custer political movement, but like previous opportunities, GAC (with Libbie's help) would have most likely, turned it down.
And I was just joking about the new ideas ... --t.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 28, 2007 9:45:57 GMT -6
GoCav, you are certainly our expert on YouTube! That is the shortest clip I've seen; I wish it were longer. I'll have to watch Anatomy again with renewed interest. Of course, anything with Jimmy Stewart and/or Lee Remick is great. I just checked several film sites and found that Welch portrayed "the ever-patient judge." Source: movies.nytimes.com/movie/2176/Anatomy-of-a-Murder/overview
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Post by gocav76 on Nov 28, 2007 12:08:11 GMT -6
Diane, Glad you liked the clip. Sad to say that I've never really studied much on the The McCarthy hearings. You should watch the following clip The Investigation of William Mandel by Sen. Joseph McCarthy. I can only imagine how much courage it took to face off against McCarthy and Investigator Cohn. www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIdED94b_I&feature=related
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Post by alfuso on Nov 28, 2007 22:47:39 GMT -6
jimc
Heinlein's idea of ideal president was to put someone in who was qualified but who absolutely did not want to be President. The theory being that they would do the most efficient job so they could get out of it sooner. Heinlein postulated that anyone who *wanted* to be President wasn't fit for it.
alfuso
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